From richard.pieri at gmail.com Tue Jun 1 09:40:07 2021 From: richard.pieri at gmail.com (Rich Pieri) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2021 09:40:07 -0400 Subject: [Discuss] Avoiding paying Windows license in the US In-Reply-To: References: <60b561f9.1c69fb81.f9a8e.f6c8@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <60b638b8.1c69fb81.40962.ed84@mx.google.com> On Tue, 1 Jun 2021 05:04:41 +0200 Julian Daich wrote: > Hi Rich, > > Whatever the tech behind it is, the license states > "By using this software, you accept these terms. If you do not accept > them, do not use the software. instead, contact the manufacturer or > installer to determine their return policy for a refund or credit." > > This will show up to you after you paid and they cannot force you to > accept it. I'm not going to argue about what is or is not enforceable license terms. I have zero skin in that game. What I am doing here is explaining how the Windows license enforcement mechanism works, explaining why this mechanism makes getting that refund or credit so onerous, and offering my advice for dealing with it (to wit: don't bother tilting at that windmill; it's not worth your time). -- Rich Pieri From jack at coats.org Tue Jun 1 17:45:38 2021 From: jack at coats.org (Jack Coats) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2021 16:45:38 -0500 Subject: [Discuss] Avoiding paying Windows license in the US In-Reply-To: <60b638b8.1c69fb81.40962.ed84@mx.google.com> References: <60b561f9.1c69fb81.f9a8e.f6c8@mx.google.com> <60b638b8.1c69fb81.40962.ed84@mx.google.com> Message-ID: In my experience, the amount you get back is almost zero especially if you consider your time. Bundling it costs most PC makers almost nothing (think $10/seat for consumer systems, and pro systems often come unbundled so they can stick you for more on you 'enterprise agreement'). It has been a long time since I purchased a new system either personal or commercial but that is my take from a long time ago. On Tue, Jun 1, 2021 at 8:41 AM Rich Pieri wrote: > On Tue, 1 Jun 2021 05:04:41 +0200 > Julian Daich wrote: > > > Hi Rich, > > > > Whatever the tech behind it is, the license states > > "By using this software, you accept these terms. If you do not accept > > them, do not use the software. instead, contact the manufacturer or > > installer to determine their return policy for a refund or credit." > > > > This will show up to you after you paid and they cannot force you to > > accept it. > > I'm not going to argue about what is or is not enforceable license > terms. I have zero skin in that game. What I am doing here is > explaining how the Windows license enforcement mechanism works, > explaining why this mechanism makes getting that refund or credit so > onerous, and offering my advice for dealing with it (to wit: don't > bother tilting at that windmill; it's not worth your time). > > -- > Rich Pieri > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss at lists.blu.org > http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > -- ><> ... Jack If you are not paying for something, you are not a consumer, you are the product. - Chamath Palihapitiya "Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn." - Ben Franklin From richard.pieri at gmail.com Tue Jun 1 18:37:34 2021 From: richard.pieri at gmail.com (Rich Pieri) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2021 18:37:34 -0400 Subject: [Discuss] Avoiding paying Windows license in the US In-Reply-To: References: <60b561f9.1c69fb81.f9a8e.f6c8@mx.google.com> <60b638b8.1c69fb81.40962.ed84@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <60b6b6ae.1c69fb81.c4339.7b69@mx.google.com> On Tue, 1 Jun 2021 16:45:38 -0500 Jack Coats wrote: > Bundling it costs most PC makers almost nothing (think $10/seat for > consumer systems, and > pro systems often come unbundled so they can stick you for more on you > 'enterprise agreement'). Windows volume licenses are actually about the same $10 per device, or less, unless you go datacenter which is a flat rate (something like $5K/socket) for unlimited VMs. Or you can just soak up the $10 as a convenience cost since you're not paying for shipping from a white box OEM. -- Rich Pieri From worley at alum.mit.edu Tue Jun 1 20:50:20 2021 From: worley at alum.mit.edu (Dale R. Worley) Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2021 20:50:20 -0400 Subject: [Discuss] work search question In-Reply-To: (discuss-request@driftwood.blu.org) Message-ID: <87sg21um2b.fsf@hobgoblin.ariadne.com> > From: Eric Chadbourne > Subject: Re: [Discuss] work search question > > I did not purposely place the additional question marks.? I can't find the message in question.? However I know what you mean.? Could be Apple Mail + listserv. > > Solid standard English?? Who's standard?? Usually I don't use caps or double space.? This is about as adult and standard as I can get.? ;-) I was excessively terse there. But above I'm quoting your message as it comes through BLU, so you can see that there's some sort of problem. (My current guess is that your mailer is putting 0xA0 (NO-BREAK SPACE) as the first of two spaces after '.' etc. and the BLU software turns it into '?'.) But my point is that looking for work is, to a great extent, a matter of presentation, and you want to ask, with every communication, what will it look like and what will the person who receives it think of it? To an extent, potential employees are allowed more latitude. But headhunters always require an interview where they can get a good look at you before they recommend you to anyone. This gets more important when you're a consultant, because you're not likely to be working for them for that long and they don't want to invest effort if you're difficult to deal with. Dale From ecs at d2evs.net Tue Jun 1 22:21:04 2021 From: ecs at d2evs.net (Eyal Sawady) Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2021 22:21:04 -0400 Subject: [Discuss] work search question In-Reply-To: <87sg21um2b.fsf@hobgoblin.ariadne.com> References: <87sg21um2b.fsf@hobgoblin.ariadne.com> Message-ID: On Tue Jun 1, 2021 at 8:50 PM EDT, Dale R. Worley wrote: > (My current guess is that your mailer is putting 0xA0 (NO-BREAK SPACE) > as the first of two spaces after '.' etc. and the BLU software turns it > into '?'.) I'm getting normal NBSPs over here, so I'd wager that the issue is somewhere between Mailman and your MUA. From eric.chadbourne at icloud.com Wed Jun 2 14:07:55 2021 From: eric.chadbourne at icloud.com (Eric Chadbourne) Date: Wed, 02 Jun 2021 18:07:55 -0000 Subject: [Discuss] work search question References: Message-ID: <30a45d0a-ae69-4550-b625-e03df0b0e922@me.com> On June 1, 2021 at 10:22 PM, "Eyal Sawady" wrote: On Tue Jun 1, 2021 at 8:50 PM EDT, Dale R. Worley wrote: (My current guess is that your mailer is putting 0xA0 (NO-BREAK SPACE) as the first of two spaces after '.' etc. and the BLU software turns it into '?'.) I'm getting normal NBSPs over here, so I'd wager that the issue is somewhere between Mailman and your MUA. Good point Eyal.? Appears the same here. - Eric From dbarrett at blazemonger.com Wed Jun 2 14:22:02 2021 From: dbarrett at blazemonger.com (Daniel Barrett) Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2021 14:22:02 -0400 Subject: [Discuss] Name an upcoming O'Reilly book? References: Message-ID: <24759.52298.982549.780608@blazemonger.com> Hi folks, I'm the author of O'Reilly's "Linux Pocket Guide," "SSH, The Definitive Guide," and several other books. I'm working on a new Linux book and I'm having trouble coming up with a good title. So I'm soliciting your suggestions. If I choose your suggestion, I'll personally send you fifty bucks and a free copy of the book on publication, and you'll appear in the book's acknowledgments. I'm looking for a title that says the following to a potential reader: "This is the second Linux book you should read, after you've mastered the basics, if you really want to understand what you're doing and increase your productivity at the command line." The new book targets Linux users who already know basic shell skills, common commands, text editing, sudo, simple sysadmin tasks, etc. The sort of user who can comfortably "cd" throughout the filesystem but has never heard of $CDPATH. The book attempts to raise their day-to-day productivity skills to the next level, so they can (say) whip up an original command with eight pipes and a few backticks without thinking hard. It's a "wisdom" book that teaches generalizable techniques that the reader can apply in new situations, rather than a cookbook of specific tips. RULES If you'd like to suggest a title: 1. Email your suggestions to me directly with the subject line "Name that book" 2. You are limited to FIVE suggestions to avoid gaming the system like this: $ paste -d' ' <(yes Linux) <(cat /usr/share/dict/words) | head -n100000 | mail -s 'Name that book' ... :-) 3. If two entrants suggest the same title, the earlier one wins. 4. Deadline is this coming Sunday, June 6, at 11:59pm ET. Thanks! Dan From eric.chadbourne at icloud.com Wed Jun 2 14:23:44 2021 From: eric.chadbourne at icloud.com (Eric Chadbourne) Date: Wed, 02 Jun 2021 18:23:44 -0000 Subject: [Discuss] work search question References: <87sg21um2b.fsf@hobgoblin.ariadne.com> Message-ID: <89e859df-6c57-4cfe-8ad8-b12fc6c9cbcd@me.com> On June 1, 2021 at 9:51 PM, worley at alum.mit.edu wrote: From: Eric Chadbourne Solid standard English?? Who's standard?? Usually I don't use caps or double space.? This is about as adult and standard as I can get.? ;-) But my point is that looking for work is, to a great extent, a matter of presentation, and you want to ask, with every communication, what will it look like and what will the person who receives it think of it? Too many commas bro.? Hehehe.? Just kidding.? You make a valid point.? Thanks! Eric From jabr at blu.org Sat Jun 5 23:07:17 2021 From: jabr at blu.org (John Abreau) Date: Sat, 5 Jun 2021 23:07:17 -0400 Subject: [Discuss] BLU Annual Summer BBQ Message-ID: We've scheduled the BLU annual summer BBQ for Saturday, August 14, noon to 5:30 pm. http://blu.org/cgi-bin/calendar/2021-bbq26 -- John Abreau / Executive Director, Boston Linux & Unix Email jabr at blu.org / WWW http://www.abreau.net / PGP-Key-ID 0x920063C6 PGP-Key-Fingerprint A5AD 6BE1 FEFE 8E4F 5C23 C2D0 E885 E17C 9200 63C6 _______________________________________________ Announce mailing list Announce at lists.blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/announce From jabr at blu.org Sun Jun 6 22:43:05 2021 From: jabr at blu.org (John Abreau) Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2021 22:43:05 -0400 Subject: [Discuss] BLU Annual Summer BBQ In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Forgot to mention, if we're rained out on August 14, we'll reschedule for August 21. On Sat, Jun 5, 2021 at 11:12 PM John Abreau wrote: > We've scheduled the BLU annual summer BBQ for Saturday, August 14, noon to > 5:30 pm. > > http://blu.org/cgi-bin/calendar/2021-bbq26 > > -- > John Abreau / Executive Director, Boston Linux & Unix > Email jabr at blu.org / WWW http://www.abreau.net / PGP-Key-ID 0x920063C6 > PGP-Key-Fingerprint A5AD 6BE1 FEFE 8E4F 5C23 C2D0 E885 E17C 9200 63C6 > _______________________________________________ > Announce mailing list > Announce at lists.blu.org > http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/announce > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss at lists.blu.org > http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > -- John Abreau / Executive Director, Boston Linux & Unix Email jabr at blu.org / WWW http://www.abreau.net / PGP-Key-ID 0x920063C6 PGP-Key-Fingerprint A5AD 6BE1 FEFE 8E4F 5C23 C2D0 E885 E17C 9200 63C6 _______________________________________________ Announce mailing list Announce at lists.blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/announce From me at mattgillen.net Mon Jun 7 10:39:31 2021 From: me at mattgillen.net (Matthew Gillen) Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2021 10:39:31 -0400 Subject: [Discuss] work search question In-Reply-To: <89e859df-6c57-4cfe-8ad8-b12fc6c9cbcd@me.com> References: <87sg21um2b.fsf@hobgoblin.ariadne.com> <89e859df-6c57-4cfe-8ad8-b12fc6c9cbcd@me.com> Message-ID: <50ae3c49-d2a1-fb1b-3608-890ce6352adf@mattgillen.net> On 6/2/2021 2:23 PM, Eric Chadbourne wrote: > On June 1, 2021 at 9:51 PM, worley at alum.mit.edu wrote: > > > From: Eric Chadbourne > > Solid standard English?? Who's standard?? Usually I don't use caps or > double space.? This is about as adult and standard as I can get.? ;-) > > But my point is that looking for work is, to a great extent, a matter of > presentation, and you want to ask, with every communication, what will > it look like and what will the person who receives it think of it? > > > Too many commas bro.? Hehehe.? Just kidding.? You make a valid point.? > Thanks! Coming to this conversation a bit late... If I had to guess without looking too hard, character sets like UTF-8 are the culprit: someone's MUA used a certain character set, and someone else's MUA is set to not trust message-specified character sets either to avoid encoding attacks or because the MUA is just too simple to do anything other than ASCII. So the unknown characters from the foreign character set show up as '?'. The problem is many MUAs these days will use stylized quotes and such without the user really being aware. So those ASCII-only Luddites see a bunch of '?' in the middle of sentences. (I mean technically you could be a ISO-8859-1 Luddite, but that's not fun) The only real solution if you want to create a page that ensures the other person sees it as you intend is PDF/A, which is an archival PDF format that embeds *all* fonts. But, because of Adobe's infinite wisdom of putting a javascript engine (with its attendant security nightmares) in their PDF readers, everyone rightly avoids opening PDFs from strangers. Which is a long way to say: don't judge a person by how they looked through your imperfect lens (at least triangulate a bit first). There's a lot of technology involved in all these mechanisms, and for a lot of reasons incompatibilities still crop up. As a hiring manager I've seen what happens to people's resumes when they've been through certain processes, and basically any formatting is stripped out anyway. Matt From eric.chadbourne at icloud.com Sat Jun 12 14:57:26 2021 From: eric.chadbourne at icloud.com (Eric Chadbourne) Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2021 14:57:26 -0400 Subject: [Discuss] The web of clowns Message-ID: <0FBF7054-D269-4CE0-8C9B-48B97D3CFAAB@icloud.com> Playing captain obvious. The vast majority of companies and government agencies are wildly incompetent at IT, particularly security. ICANN is an untrustworthy whore completely overrun by the industry they should regulate. Top domains that boast extra security are actually the exact opposite. For example dot bank and dot cpa. Complete clown show top to bottom. How do you all find the energy to keep working in this field? I?m either going to leave or transition to red teaming. This is all terrible. Kind of a joke industry. Eric C Puts down beer and giggles at the hopeful end of career. Chadbourne.Consulting From epp at caramail.com Sat Jun 12 16:01:43 2021 From: epp at caramail.com (Edward) Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2021 16:01:43 -0400 Subject: [Discuss] The web of clowns In-Reply-To: <0FBF7054-D269-4CE0-8C9B-48B97D3CFAAB@icloud.com> References: <0FBF7054-D269-4CE0-8C9B-48B97D3CFAAB@icloud.com> Message-ID: <8246e0da-2888-edfd-41e1-c6cb953420b2@caramail.com> On 6/12/21 2:57 PM, Eric Chadbourne wrote: > Playing captain obvious. > > The vast majority of companies and government agencies are wildly incompetent at IT, particularly security. > > ICANN is an untrustworthy whore completely overrun by the industry they should regulate. > > Top domains that boast extra security are actually the exact opposite. For example dot bank and dot cpa. Complete clown show top to bottom. > How do you all find the energy to keep working in this field? I?m either going to leave or transition to red teaming. This is all terrible. Kind of a joke industry. > > Eric C > Puts down beer and giggles at the hopeful end of career. > > Chadbourne.Consulting I'm curious as to why the Internet overlords allowed domains with dot anythingyouwant next to it... -- Linux. A Continual Learning Experience. From eric.chadbourne at icloud.com Sat Jun 12 16:20:20 2021 From: eric.chadbourne at icloud.com (Eric Chadbourne) Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2021 16:20:20 -0400 Subject: [Discuss] The web of clowns In-Reply-To: <8246e0da-2888-edfd-41e1-c6cb953420b2@caramail.com> References: <8246e0da-2888-edfd-41e1-c6cb953420b2@caramail.com> Message-ID: <266DC6E9-F63A-4B1B-A7C4-466B687FCD96@icloud.com> > On Jun 12, 2021, at 4:02 PM, Edward wrote: > > ?On 6/12/21 2:57 PM, Eric Chadbourne wrote: >> Playing captain obvious. >> >> The vast majority of companies and government agencies are wildly incompetent at IT, particularly security. >> >> ICANN is an untrustworthy whore completely overrun by the industry they should regulate. >> >> Top domains that boast extra security are actually the exact opposite. For example dot bank and dot cpa. Complete clown show top to bottom. >> How do you all find the energy to keep working in this field? I?m either going to leave or transition to red teaming. This is all terrible. Kind of a joke industry. >> >> Eric C >> Puts down beer and giggles at the hopeful end of career. >> >> Chadbourne.Consulting > > I'm curious as to why the Internet overlords allowed domains with dot > anythingyouwant next to it... > > Money of course. Eric From bill.n1vux at gmail.com Sat Jun 12 17:32:21 2021 From: bill.n1vux at gmail.com (Bill Ricker) Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2021 17:32:21 -0400 Subject: [Discuss] The web of clowns In-Reply-To: <266DC6E9-F63A-4B1B-A7C4-466B687FCD96@icloud.com> References: <8246e0da-2888-edfd-41e1-c6cb953420b2@caramail.com> <266DC6E9-F63A-4B1B-A7C4-466B687FCD96@icloud.com> Message-ID: > Money of course. > Which was required once the DARPA/NSF subsidy ended, in part because Rest of World complained that The Internet was being run as a subsidiary of the US Gov, and in part because it wasn't experimental anymore and thus no longer needing subsidy. -- Bill Ricker bill.n1vux at gmail.com https://www.linkedin.com/in/n1vux From richard.pieri at gmail.com Sat Jun 12 18:21:36 2021 From: richard.pieri at gmail.com (Rich Pieri) Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2021 18:21:36 -0400 Subject: [Discuss] The web of clowns In-Reply-To: <0FBF7054-D269-4CE0-8C9B-48B97D3CFAAB@icloud.com> References: <0FBF7054-D269-4CE0-8C9B-48B97D3CFAAB@icloud.com> Message-ID: <60c53372.1c69fb81.ecd2.214e@mx.google.com> On Sat, 12 Jun 2021 14:57:26 -0400 Eric Chadbourne wrote: > The vast majority of companies and government agencies are wildly > incompetent at IT, particularly security. They're getting better. It is taking some very high profile wakeup calls like the Solarwinds breach but it is happening. > ICANN is an untrustworthy whore completely overrun by the industry > they should regulate. ICANN is not, and never has been, a regulatory agency. ICANN is a non-profit corporation. It has no regulatory authority. > Top domains that boast extra security are actually the exact > opposite. For example dot bank and dot cpa. Complete clown show top > to bottom. Much of this is due to DNS being insecure and trusting at its heart. Turns out, securing something that is intrinsically insecure is hard. And of course these extra security TLDs are the most attractive targets and the most agressively attacked. > How do you all find the energy to keep working in this > field? I?m either going to leave or transition to red teaming. > This is all terrible. Kind of a joke industry. Beats manual labor. -- Rich Pieri From eric.chadbourne at icloud.com Sat Jun 12 18:53:13 2021 From: eric.chadbourne at icloud.com (Eric Chadbourne) Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2021 22:53:13 -0000 Subject: [Discuss] The web of clowns References: Message-ID: <96b1e1b6-1c24-4c8b-9fcf-34c7e910bf57@me.com> On June 12, 2021 at 5:32 PM, Bill Ricker wrote: Money of course. Which was required once the DARPA/NSF subsidy ended, in part because Rest of World complained that The Internet was being run as a subsidiary of the US Gov, and in part because it wasn't experimental anymore and thus no longer needing subsidy. -- Bill Ricker bill.n1vux at gmail.com https://www.linkedin.com/in/n1vux? Oh yeah I remember the Rest of World (lol) complaining.? Good point.? Are things better?? Maybe we need a radical shift away from these folks.? ??? There are some neat alternative DNS projects about. - Eric C From eric.chadbourne at icloud.com Sat Jun 12 19:15:54 2021 From: eric.chadbourne at icloud.com (Eric Chadbourne) Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2021 23:15:54 -0000 Subject: [Discuss] The web of clowns References: <60c53372.1c69fb81.ecd2.214e@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <8f9c173f-81c0-4526-99bb-e25e846325fa@me.com> On June 12, 2021 at 6:22 PM, Rich Pieri wrote: On Sat, 12 Jun 2021 14:57:26 -0400 Eric Chadbourne wrote: The vast majority of companies and government agencies are wildly incompetent at IT, particularly security. They're getting better. It is taking some very high profile wakeup calls like the Solarwinds breach but it is happening. Breach velocity is increasing, or so it appears from here, but I'm just reading the same public stuff you all are. ? ICANN is an untrustworthy whore completely overrun by the industry they should regulate. ICANN is not, and never has been, a regulatory agency. ICANN is a non-profit corporation. It has no regulatory authority. The word regulatory may have been incorrect.? They do require significant contractual obligations and have methods to modify them.? Feels like a governing body even though it really isn't. ? Top domains that boast extra security are actually the exact opposite. For example dot bank and dot cpa. Complete clown show top to bottom. Much of this is due to DNS being insecure and trusting at its heart. Turns out, securing something that is intrinsically insecure is hard. And of course these extra security TLDs are the most attractive targets and the most agressively attacked. Yeah you hit the nail on the head IMHO.? The combination of arrogance and ignorance is impressive.? DNS is hard at that level. ? How do you all find the energy to keep working in this field? I?m either going to leave or transition to red teaming. This is all terrible. Kind of a joke industry. Beats manual labor. True. Thanks, Eric From richard.pieri at gmail.com Sat Jun 12 22:20:21 2021 From: richard.pieri at gmail.com (Rich Pieri) Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2021 22:20:21 -0400 Subject: [Discuss] The web of clowns In-Reply-To: <8f9c173f-81c0-4526-99bb-e25e846325fa@me.com> References: <60c53372.1c69fb81.ecd2.214e@mx.google.com> <8f9c173f-81c0-4526-99bb-e25e846325fa@me.com> Message-ID: <60c56b66.1c69fb81.a478e.6740@mx.google.com> On Sat, 12 Jun 2021 23:15:54 -0000 Eric Chadbourne wrote: > Breach velocity is increasing, or so it appears from here, but I'm > just reading the same public stuff you all are. Maybe, but breach reporting is also increasing. Companies are learning that trying to keep breaches secret is harmful to their long-term repuatations. It's also illegal in much of the world and the penalties are designed to be onerous. They also are learning that transparency is beneficial to their reputations. I expect this is skewing your perception of the world. > The word regulatory may have been incorrect.? They do require > significant contractual obligations and have methods to modify them. > Feels like a governing body even though it really isn't. ICANN's charter and role is to manage the top level domains in the US and to manage the IP address space in the US. I suppose you could say ICANN governs the creation of TLDs and the allocation of IP addresses. Regardless, ICANN does not govern or regulate its customers' use of those domains and addresses. That authority belongs to various federal agencies including but not limited to the FCC, the FTC and the NTIA. > Yeah you hit the nail on the head IMHO.? The combination of arrogance > and ignorance is impressive.? DNS is hard at that level. DNS is hard at every level. I mean, the definitive book on DNS is over 600 pages in its current edition. There's a reason why every chapter starts with a quote from Lewis Carrol. -- Rich Pieri From jabr at blu.org Mon Jun 14 11:06:18 2021 From: jabr at blu.org (John Abreau) Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2021 11:06:18 -0400 Subject: [Discuss] IRC problems at freenode? Message-ID: I noticed some discussion of problems at freenode. Apparently there has been a takeover of network operations, the former freenode staff are gone, and the new management is hostile to FLOSS. The former staff are now running Linux.Chat and the #linux channel on Libera. Thoughts? https://freenode.linux.community/ https://www.fsf.org/news/fsf-and-gnu-move-official-irc-channels-to-libera-chat-network https://linux.chat/ -- John Abreau / Executive Director, Boston Linux & Unix Email jabr at blu.org / WWW http://www.abreau.net / PGP-Key-ID 0x920063C6 PGP-Key-Fingerprint A5AD 6BE1 FEFE 8E4F 5C23 C2D0 E885 E17C 9200 63C6 From dsr at randomstring.org Mon Jun 14 11:42:53 2021 From: dsr at randomstring.org (Dan Ritter) Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2021 11:42:53 -0400 Subject: [Discuss] IRC problems at freenode? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20210614154253.45r4zr3ufxg6nzhg@randomstring.org> John Abreau wrote: > I noticed some discussion of problems at freenode. Apparently there has > been a takeover of network operations, the former freenode staff are gone, > and the new management is hostile to FLOSS. The former staff are now > running Linux.Chat and the #linux channel on Libera. > > Thoughts? > > https://freenode.linux.community/ > > https://www.fsf.org/news/fsf-and-gnu-move-official-irc-channels-to-libera-chat-network > > https://linux.chat/ > Oh, wow, yes. There was a lot. It's not that the new management is hostile to FLOSS. The new management is hostile to everybody. All my channels spent a couple of days discussing it and then moved to libera.chat. All of them. -dsr- From gaf.linux at gmail.com Tue Jun 15 20:30:50 2021 From: gaf.linux at gmail.com (Jerry Feldman) Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2021 20:30:50 -0400 Subject: [Discuss] Boston Linux VIRTUAL Meeting Wednesday, June 23, 2021 - No One Ever Buys a Computer Message-ID: When:June 23, 2021 7:00PM EDT (6:30PM for Q&A) Note: This is not our regular third Wednesday because June 23 is Alan Turing's 109th birthday. Topic: No One Ever Buys a Computer Moderators: Jon "Maddog" Hall Location: Online: https://meet.jit.si/blu.org Live stream: https://youtu.be/43geWUXNjZE Summary: Jon ?maddog? Hall discusses what customers really look for Abstract: People never really buy software, nor do they buy hardware. They buy a solution to their problem, but it just happens that computers and software can solve many, many problems in a relatively inexpensive and flexible way compared to other solutions. Today there are hundreds of thousands of software modules and incredibly inexpensive, but powerful single board microcomputers or microprocessors to build these solutions. These in turn can help people sell and support these solutions, creating jobs. This talk will illustrate several ideas for these products and hope to stimulate ideas of other solutions that people could use. Bio Jon ?maddog? Hall is the Board Chair of the Linux Professional Institute, Co-founder of Caninos Loucos, the President of Project Caua and the President of Linux International. Since 1969 Mr. Hall has been a programmer, systems designer, systems administrator, product manager, technical marketing manager, educator, author, CEO and consultant. Mr. Hall has worked for companies like Western Electric Corporation, Aetna Life and Casualty, Bell Laboratories, Digital Equipment Corporation, VA Linux Systems, IBM, SGI and Futura Networks (Campus Party) as well as being a private consultant. Mr Hall worked on Unix systems since 1980 and Linux systems since 1994, when he first met Linus Torvalds and recognized the commercial importance of FOSS. Mr. Hall has taught at Hartford State Technical College, Merrimack College and Daniel Webster College. Mr. Hall is the author of many magazine and newspaper articles, many presentations and one book, ?Linux for Dummies?. He writes a monthly article for Linux Pro Magazine. Mr. Hall has consulted with the governments of China, Malaysia, Canada and Brazil as well as the UN and many local and state governments. Mr. Hall is on the advisory board of the University of Sao Paulo's Centro Interdisciplinar Em Tecnologias Interativas (CITI). Mr. Hall traveled to over 100 countries speaking on the benefits of FOSS. Mr. Hall received his BS in Commerce and Engineering from Drexel University (1973), and his MSCS from RPI in Troy, New York (1977). For further information and directions please consult the BLU Web site: http://www.blu.org -- Jerry Feldman > Boston Linux and Unix http://www.blu.org PGP key id: 6F6BB6E7 PGP Key fingerprint: 0EDC 2FF5 53A6 8EED 84D1? 3050 5715 B88D 6F6 B B6E7 _______________________________________________ Announce mailing list Announce at lists.blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/announce From christop-perrault at comcast.net Wed Jun 16 23:07:02 2021 From: christop-perrault at comcast.net (Christopher Perrault) Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2021 23:07:02 -0400 Subject: [Discuss] IRC problems at freenode? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I don't know the specifics of the issue(s), but I know something's up because Fedora and Centos switched their channels to Libera also. On 6/14/21 11:06 AM, John Abreau wrote: > I noticed some discussion of problems at freenode. Apparently there has > been a takeover of network operations, the former freenode staff are gone, > and the new management is hostile to FLOSS. The former staff are now > running Linux.Chat and the #linux channel on Libera. > > Thoughts? > > https://freenode.linux.community/ > > https://www.fsf.org/news/fsf-and-gnu-move-official-irc-channels-to-libera-chat-network > > https://linux.chat/ > -- Chris Perrault christop-perrault at comcast.net From dsr at randomstring.org Thu Jun 17 06:39:09 2021 From: dsr at randomstring.org (Dan Ritter) Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2021 06:39:09 -0400 Subject: [Discuss] IRC problems at freenode? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20210617103909.243ifw6hk3antwj7@randomstring.org> Christopher Perrault wrote: > I don't know the specifics of the issue(s), but I know something's up > because Fedora and Centos switched their channels to Libera also. > https://ariadne.space/2021/05/20/the-whole-freenode-kerfluffle/ and eventually https://isfreenodedeadyet.com/ -dsr- From dsr at randomstring.org Thu Jun 17 15:17:23 2021 From: dsr at randomstring.org (Dan Ritter) Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2021 15:17:23 -0400 Subject: [Discuss] IRC problems at freenode? In-Reply-To: <871r90pb5j.fsf@fsf.org> References: <20210617103909.243ifw6hk3antwj7@randomstring.org> <871r90pb5j.fsf@fsf.org> Message-ID: <20210617191723.uac3ohp4sqku2nam@randomstring.org> Ian Kelling wrote: > > Dan Ritter writes: > > > Christopher Perrault wrote: > >> I don't know the specifics of the issue(s), but I know something's up > >> because Fedora and Centos switched their channels to Libera also. > >> > > > > https://ariadne.space/2021/05/20/the-whole-freenode-kerfluffle/ > > > > and eventually > > > > https://isfreenodedeadyet.com/ > > > > -dsr- > > Yes. tldr is that freenode is now libera.chat That's... inaccurate. freenode suffered a coup, a totalitarian takeover, and then kicked everyone out in order to attain pure enlightenment. It's true, with no users comes a kind of purity. libera.chat was created by some of the former freenode admins, has protections against suffering the same fate, and has been chosen by many projects as their new home. The other major IRC network for free and open source communities (among others) is oftc.net, which is sponsored by Software in the Public Interest. oftc is where the official Debian channels were and still are. -dsr- From eric.chadbourne at icloud.com Thu Jun 17 15:24:59 2021 From: eric.chadbourne at icloud.com (Eric Chadbourne) Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2021 15:24:59 -0400 Subject: [Discuss] IRC problems at freenode? In-Reply-To: <20210617191723.uac3ohp4sqku2nam@randomstring.org> References: <20210617191723.uac3ohp4sqku2nam@randomstring.org> Message-ID: <9B960946-B050-424C-BF19-F493D4ED333A@icloud.com> So where do the cool blu folks go? Would be fun to IRC again. Thanks, Eric > On Jun 17, 2021, at 3:18 PM, Dan Ritter wrote: > > ?Ian Kelling wrote: >> >> Dan Ritter writes: >> >>> Christopher Perrault wrote: >>>> I don't know the specifics of the issue(s), but I know something's up >>>> because Fedora and Centos switched their channels to Libera also. >>>> >>> >>> https://ariadne.space/2021/05/20/the-whole-freenode-kerfluffle/ >>> >>> and eventually >>> >>> https://isfreenodedeadyet.com/ >>> >>> -dsr- >> >> Yes. tldr is that freenode is now libera.chat > > That's... inaccurate. > > freenode suffered a coup, a totalitarian takeover, and then > kicked everyone out in order to attain pure enlightenment. It's > true, with no users comes a kind of purity. > > libera.chat was created by some of the former freenode admins, > has protections against suffering the same fate, and has been > chosen by many projects as their new home. > > The other major IRC network for free and open source communities > (among others) is oftc.net, which is sponsored by Software in > the Public Interest. oftc is where the official Debian channels > were and still are. > > -dsr- > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss at lists.blu.org > http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss From derek at ihtfp.com Thu Jun 17 15:27:31 2021 From: derek at ihtfp.com (Derek Atkins) Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2021 15:27:31 -0400 Subject: [Discuss] IRC problems at freenode? In-Reply-To: <20210617191723.uac3ohp4sqku2nam@randomstring.org> References: <20210617103909.243ifw6hk3antwj7@randomstring.org> <871r90pb5j.fsf@fsf.org> <20210617191723.uac3ohp4sqku2nam@randomstring.org> Message-ID: On Thu, June 17, 2021 3:17 pm, Dan Ritter wrote: > The other major IRC network for free and open source communities > (among others) is oftc.net, which is sponsored by Software in > the Public Interest. oftc is where the official Debian channels > were and still are. Not sure how you define "major". There is also GIMP.Net (aka GNOME IRC). > -dsr- -derek -- Derek Atkins 617-623-3745 derek at ihtfp.com www.ihtfp.com Computer and Internet Security Consultant From dsr at randomstring.org Thu Jun 17 15:59:02 2021 From: dsr at randomstring.org (Dan Ritter) Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2021 15:59:02 -0400 Subject: [Discuss] IRC problems at freenode? In-Reply-To: References: <20210617103909.243ifw6hk3antwj7@randomstring.org> <871r90pb5j.fsf@fsf.org> <20210617191723.uac3ohp4sqku2nam@randomstring.org> Message-ID: <20210617195902.dlobuavh5ihox57b@randomstring.org> Derek Atkins wrote: > > On Thu, June 17, 2021 3:17 pm, Dan Ritter wrote: > > > The other major IRC network for free and open source communities > > (among others) is oftc.net, which is sponsored by Software in > > the Public Interest. oftc is where the official Debian channels > > were and still are. > > Not sure how you define "major". There is also GIMP.Net (aka GNOME IRC). I think it doesn't matter how I define major; knowing about alternatives is good. Thanks. -dsr- From abreauj at gmail.com Thu Jun 17 18:38:56 2021 From: abreauj at gmail.com (John Abreau) Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2021 18:38:56 -0400 Subject: [Discuss] IRC problems at freenode? In-Reply-To: <9B960946-B050-424C-BF19-F493D4ED333A@icloud.com> References: <20210617191723.uac3ohp4sqku2nam@randomstring.org> <9B960946-B050-424C-BF19-F493D4ED333A@icloud.com> Message-ID: BLU has had a channel on freenode for decades. Given the mass migration, it seems prudent to move our channel to libera. Just need to be sure that everyone using the channel knows about the move. On Thu, Jun 17, 2021 at 3:25 PM Eric Chadbourne wrote: > So where do the cool blu folks go? Would be fun to IRC again. > > Thanks, > Eric > > > On Jun 17, 2021, at 3:18 PM, Dan Ritter wrote: > > > > ?Ian Kelling wrote: > >> > >> Dan Ritter writes: > >> > >>> Christopher Perrault wrote: > >>>> I don't know the specifics of the issue(s), but I know something's up > >>>> because Fedora and Centos switched their channels to Libera also. > >>>> > >>> > >>> https://ariadne.space/2021/05/20/the-whole-freenode-kerfluffle/ > >>> > >>> and eventually > >>> > >>> https://isfreenodedeadyet.com/ > >>> > >>> -dsr- > >> > >> Yes. tldr is that freenode is now libera.chat > > > > That's... inaccurate. > > > > freenode suffered a coup, a totalitarian takeover, and then > > kicked everyone out in order to attain pure enlightenment. It's > > true, with no users comes a kind of purity. > > > > libera.chat was created by some of the former freenode admins, > > has protections against suffering the same fate, and has been > > chosen by many projects as their new home. > > > > The other major IRC network for free and open source communities > > (among others) is oftc.net, which is sponsored by Software in > > the Public Interest. oftc is where the official Debian channels > > were and still are. > > > > -dsr- > > _______________________________________________ > > Discuss mailing list > > Discuss at lists.blu.org > > http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss at lists.blu.org > http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > -- John Abreau / Executive Director, Boston Linux & Unix Email: abreauj at gmail.com / WWW http://www.abreau.net / PGP-Key-ID 0x920063C6 PGP-Key-Fingerprint A5AD 6BE1 FEFE 8E4F 5C23 C2D0 E885 E17C 9200 63C6 From dsr at randomstring.org Thu Jun 17 18:52:10 2021 From: dsr at randomstring.org (Dan Ritter) Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2021 18:52:10 -0400 Subject: [Discuss] IRC problems at freenode? In-Reply-To: References: <20210617191723.uac3ohp4sqku2nam@randomstring.org> <9B960946-B050-424C-BF19-F493D4ED333A@icloud.com> Message-ID: <20210617225210.i3upd2gtlwmpvljs@randomstring.org> John Abreau wrote: > BLU has had a channel on freenode for decades. Given the mass migration, it > seems prudent to move our channel to libera. Just need to be sure that > everyone using the channel knows about the move. Doesn't matter. Freenode deleted all nicks and channels a couple of days ago. If there's an irc.blu.org, might as well re-point it at libera.chat. From gaf.linux at gmail.com Tue Jun 22 12:08:27 2021 From: gaf.linux at gmail.com (Jerry Feldman) Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2021 12:08:27 -0400 Subject: [Discuss] Boston Linux VIRTUAL Meeting reminder, tomorrow, Wednesday, June 23, 2021 - No One Ever Buys a Computer Message-ID: <0abad3dd-64ab-bad6-9c52-618fc3e30be2@gmail.com> When: June 23, 2021 7:00PM EDT (6:30PM for Q&A) Note: This is not our regular third Wednesday because June 23 is Alan Turing's 109th birthday. Topic: No One Ever Buys a Computer Moderator: Jon "Maddog" Hall Location: Online: https://meet.jit.si/blu.org Live stream:? https://youtu.be/43geWUXNjZE Summary: Jon ?maddog? Hall discusses what customers really look for Abstract: People never really buy software, nor do they buy hardware. They buy a solution to their problem, but it just happens that computers and software can solve many, many problems in a relatively inexpensive and flexible way compared to other solutions. Today there are hundreds of thousands of software modules and incredibly inexpensive, but powerful single board microcomputers or microprocessors to build these solutions. These in turn can help people sell and support these solutions, creating jobs. This talk will illustrate several ideas for these products and hope to stimulate ideas of other solutions that people could use. Bio Jon ?maddog? Hall is the Board Chair of the Linux Professional Institute, Co-founder of Caninos Loucos, the President of Project Caua and the President of Linux International. Since 1969 Mr. Hall has been a programmer, systems designer, systems administrator, product manager, technical marketing manager, educator, author, CEO and consultant. Mr. Hall has worked for companies like Western Electric Corporation, Aetna Life and Casualty, Bell Laboratories, Digital Equipment Corporation, VA Linux Systems, IBM, SGI and Futura Networks (Campus Party) as well as being a private consultant. Mr Hall worked on Unix systems since 1980 and Linux systems since 1994, when he first met Linus Torvalds and recognized the commercial importance of FOSS. Mr. Hall has taught at Hartford State Technical College, Merrimack College and Daniel Webster College. Mr. Hall is the author of many magazine and newspaper articles, many presentations and one book, ?Linux for Dummies?. He writes a monthly article for Linux Pro Magazine. Mr. Hall has consulted with the governments of China, Malaysia, Canada and Brazil as well as the UN and many local and state governments. Mr. Hall is on the advisory board of the University of Sao Paulo's Centro Interdisciplinar Em Tecnologias Interativas (CITI). Mr. Hall traveled to over 100 countries speaking on the benefits of FOSS. Mr. Hall received his BS in Commerce and Engineering from Drexel University (1973), and his MSCS from RPI in Troy, New York (1977). For further information and directions please consult the BLU Web site: http://www.blu.org -- Jerry Feldman > Boston Linux and Unix http://www.blu.org PGP key id: 6F6BB6E7 PGP Key fingerprint: 0EDC 2FF5 53A6 8EED 84D1? 3050 5715 B88D 6F6 B B6E7 _______________________________________________ Announce mailing list Announce at lists.blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/announce From abreauj at gmail.com Fri Jun 25 15:29:12 2021 From: abreauj at gmail.com (John Abreau) Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2021 15:29:12 -0400 Subject: [Discuss] Video and slides for Wednesday's BLU meeting have been posted Message-ID: The video of maddog's presentation at the July 23 BLU meeting has been posted to the BLU website, along with maddog's slides. http://blu.org/cgi-bin/calendar/2021-jun http://blu.org/meetings/2021/06/ -- John Abreau / Executive Director, Boston Linux & Unix Email: abreauj at gmail.com / WWW http://www.abreau.net / PGP-Key-ID 0x920063C6 PGP-Key-Fingerprint A5AD 6BE1 FEFE 8E4F 5C23 C2D0 E885 E17C 9200 63C6 _______________________________________________ Announce mailing list Announce at lists.blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/announce