From richard.pieri at gmail.com  Fri Oct  1 21:32:12 2021
From: richard.pieri at gmail.com (Rich Pieri)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2021 21:32:12 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] DST Root CA X3 Expiry and CA bundles
Message-ID: <6157b69c.1c69fb81.4f2cc.ce30@mx.google.com>

Some CA bundles like the one distributed with Sylpheed for Windows
contains several expired CA certs including the now expired DST Root CA
X3 certificate. This can cause problems with Let's Encrypt certificates
even though the bundle has the ISRG Root X1 CA cert. In my particular
case, Sylpheed thinks my Let's Encrypt cert is expired even though
it clearly is not. Might be a Sylpheed bug.

Anyway, the solution is a little bit of surgery:

awk 'BEGIN {c=0;} /BEGIN CERT/{c++} { print > "cert." c ".pem"}' < certs.crt

This will break the bundle up into one PEM file per certificate.

for f in {1..127}; do echo "$f" >> certs.txt; openssl x509 -noout -text -in cert.${f}.pem >> certs.txt; done

This parses each PEM file as text, and dumps everything into a single
text file with the file number at the start of each cert for reference.
127 happens to be the number of PEM files the awk command created for
me. Scan through the text file looking for expired certificates, delete
the corresponding cert.X.pem file and then bundle them up again:

for f in {1..127}; do cat cert.${f}.pem >> newcerts.crt; done

Put the new bundle where it needs to be and you're done.

-- 
Rich Pieri

From epp at sillydog.org  Fri Oct  1 21:41:55 2021
From: epp at sillydog.org (Edward)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2021 21:41:55 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] DST Root CA X3 Expiry and CA bundles
In-Reply-To: <6157b69c.1c69fb81.4f2cc.ce30@mx.google.com>
References: <6157b69c.1c69fb81.4f2cc.ce30@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <a38ce95e-55c3-6981-f9da-5e37936a830b@sillydog.org>

On 10/1/21 9:32 PM, Rich Pieri wrote:
> Some CA bundles like the one distributed with Sylpheed for Windows
> contains several expired CA certs including the now expired DST Root CA
> X3 certificate. This can cause problems with Let's Encrypt certificates
> even though the bundle has the ISRG Root X1 CA cert. In my particular
> case, Sylpheed thinks my Let's Encrypt cert is expired even though
> it clearly is not. Might be a Sylpheed bug.
>
> Anyway, the solution is a little bit of surgery:
>
> awk 'BEGIN {c=0;} /BEGIN CERT/{c++} { print > "cert." c ".pem"}' < certs.crt
>
> This will break the bundle up into one PEM file per certificate.
>
> for f in {1..127}; do echo "$f" >> certs.txt; openssl x509 -noout -text -in cert.${f}.pem >> certs.txt; done
>
> This parses each PEM file as text, and dumps everything into a single
> text file with the file number at the start of each cert for reference.
> 127 happens to be the number of PEM files the awk command created for
> me. Scan through the text file looking for expired certificates, delete
> the corresponding cert.X.pem file and then bundle them up again:
>
> for f in {1..127}; do cat cert.${f}.pem >> newcerts.crt; done
>
> Put the new bundle where it needs to be and you're done.

Sylpheed has not been updated in over three years.

Although at https://sylpheed.sraoss.jp/en/news.html, there is some 
information posted from 2020, regarding errors relating to certificates 
that were included with the Windows version.



From richard.pieri at gmail.com  Fri Oct  1 22:27:22 2021
From: richard.pieri at gmail.com (Rich Pieri)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2021 22:27:22 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] DST Root CA X3 Expiry and CA bundles
In-Reply-To: <a38ce95e-55c3-6981-f9da-5e37936a830b@sillydog.org>
References: <6157b69c.1c69fb81.4f2cc.ce30@mx.google.com>
 <a38ce95e-55c3-6981-f9da-5e37936a830b@sillydog.org>
Message-ID: <6157c389.1c69fb81.ebfae.cbc8@mx.google.com>

On Fri, 1 Oct 2021 21:41:55 -0400
Edward <epp at sillydog.org> wrote:

> Sylpheed has not been updated in over three years.

So?

> Although at https://sylpheed.sraoss.jp/en/news.html, there is some 
> information posted from 2020, regarding errors relating to
> certificates that were included with the Windows version.

Similar problem, similar solution (updated CA bundle).

-- 
Rich Pieri

From bill.n1vux at gmail.com  Sat Oct  2 00:47:04 2021
From: bill.n1vux at gmail.com (Bill Ricker)
Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2021 00:47:04 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] DST Root CA X3 Expiry and CA bundles
In-Reply-To: <6157b69c.1c69fb81.4f2cc.ce30@mx.google.com>
References: <6157b69c.1c69fb81.4f2cc.ce30@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CAAbKA3XSgK5Qy+gHBumfK7h2wDFUKoxx_MNmbkjNN_9duvBXHQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Oct 1, 2021 at 9:34 PM Rich Pieri <richard.pieri at gmail.com> wrote:

> contains several expired CA certs including the now expired
> *DST Root CA X3 certificate. *
> This can cause problems with Let's Encrypt certificates
> even though the bundle has the ISRG Root X1 CA cert.


*Let's Encrypt *had posted notice of this oncoming chain-change back in
March & April, their changes to support this effective in May.
https://community.letsencrypt.org/t/production-chain-changes/150739
&
https://community.letsencrypt.org/t/providing-a-longer-certificate-chain-by-default/148738


> In my particular
> case, Sylpheed thinks my Let's Encrypt cert is expired even though
> it clearly is not. Might be a Sylpheed bug.
>

Wouldn't be the first to fail to check an alternate chain correctly.
Likely won't be the last either *sigh*  (Gotta have test cases for the
edgecases !)

*SANS Internet Storm Center* covered this pending doom in the daily podcast
for Tuesday Sep 28th (eps 7690).
https://isc.sans.edu/podcastdetail.html?id=7690 *should* show you the notes
for eps. 7690
   (but the web app is going to Friday now, and PREVIOUS just loops,
oopsie;
    but the link they provided is pasted above, i got it from the RSS feed
for you.)
https://traffic.libsyn.com/securitypodcast/7690.mp3

From richard.pieri at gmail.com  Sat Oct  2 09:55:15 2021
From: richard.pieri at gmail.com (Rich Pieri)
Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2021 09:55:15 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] DST Root CA X3 Expiry and CA bundles
In-Reply-To: <CAAbKA3XSgK5Qy+gHBumfK7h2wDFUKoxx_MNmbkjNN_9duvBXHQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6157b69c.1c69fb81.4f2cc.ce30@mx.google.com>
 <CAAbKA3XSgK5Qy+gHBumfK7h2wDFUKoxx_MNmbkjNN_9duvBXHQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <615864c2.1c69fb81.7425e.3338@mx.google.com>

On Sat, 2 Oct 2021 00:47:04 -0400
Bill Ricker <bill.n1vux at gmail.com> wrote:

> *Let's Encrypt *had posted notice of this oncoming chain-change back
> in March & April, their changes to support this effective in May.
> https://community.letsencrypt.org/t/production-chain-changes/150739
> &
> https://community.letsencrypt.org/t/providing-a-longer-certificate-chain-by-default/148738

I know. I just happened to get blind-sided by the Sylpheed bug -- yes,
let's call it a bug -- because the 2020 CA bundle includes the ISRG
Root X1 CA cert.

I just wanted to pass on this solution to anyone who runs into a
similar problem.

-- 
Rich Pieri

From eric.chadbourne at icloud.com  Mon Oct  4 09:51:39 2021
From: eric.chadbourne at icloud.com (Eric Chadbourne)
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2021 13:51:39 -0000
Subject: [Discuss] chrome help
Message-ID: <8b097c0b-65bd-453f-8b3f-c6fd25f20bd0@me.com>

Hi Dan,Did you ever figure it out?? I bet there's a million folks with the same issues.I think it's crazy to store passwords in a browser yet I'm guilty too.- EricOn Sep 27, 2021, at 8:02 PM, dan moylan <jdm at moylan.us> wrote:i've been using chrome as my default browser for some time,but recently two things have changed (for the worse) and ihave been unable to figure out how to change them back.1. password auto fill: i'm asked whether to save or not asusual, so i say yes, but autofill doesn't work.  i see thepasswords under google, but not under settings.2. i used to be able to select the application used whenclicking on files, such as pdf or midi.  now when i click onpdf it shows ok, but midi file just download.  i can nolonger find the link to select the application.any help would be appreciated.tia,ole danj. daniel moylan84 harvard avebrookline, ma 02446-6202617-777-0207 (cel)jdm at moylan.uswww.moylan.us[BLM]_______________________________________________Discuss mailing listDiscuss at lists.blu.orghttp://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss

From worley at alum.mit.edu  Fri Oct  8 22:13:38 2021
From: worley at alum.mit.edu (Dale R. Worley)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2021 22:13:38 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] Flakey networking in Fedora 34?
Message-ID: <877denaqst.fsf@hobgoblin.ariadne.com>

I've just upgraded to Fedora 34 (from Fedora 19!) and I'm noticing that
the networking, or at least, the WiFi networking, seems to be flakey in
that a long-running ssh connection will just stall, for anywhere from a
few seconds to a minute or more.  Sometimes taking the WiFi interface
down and up will get the connection going, sometimes it will crash the
connection immediately.

Is this a known thing?  I run yum-update weekly and I notice the kernel
is updated every week (currently 5.14.9), suggesting it's still buggy.

Dale

From worley at alum.mit.edu  Fri Oct  8 22:15:34 2021
From: worley at alum.mit.edu (Dale R. Worley)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2021 22:15:34 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] Off Topic and Proud of It: Untraceable Garage Door
 Openers
In-Reply-To: <mailman.28789.1633138360.7345.discuss@lists.blu.org>
 (discuss-request@driftwood.blu.org)
Message-ID: <874k9raqpl.fsf@hobgoblin.ariadne.com>

> From: Shirley M?rquez D?lcey <mark at buttery.org>

> Aside from that, your best bets are likely to be a used opener ...

Which is the ultimate in untraceability, it was sold to somebody else!

Dale

From jbk at kjkelra.com  Sun Oct 10 13:00:33 2021
From: jbk at kjkelra.com (jbk)
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2021 13:00:33 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] Flakey networking in Fedora 34?
In-Reply-To: <877denaqst.fsf@hobgoblin.ariadne.com>
References: <877denaqst.fsf@hobgoblin.ariadne.com>
Message-ID: <2330c96d-b5d7-8e1c-023c-afda1600e03c@kjkelra.com>

On 10/8/21 22:13, Dale R. Worley wrote:
> I've just upgraded to Fedora 34 (from Fedora 19!) and I'm noticing that
> the networking, or at least, the WiFi networking, seems to be flakey in
> that a long-running ssh connection will just stall, for anywhere from a
> few seconds to a minute or more.  Sometimes taking the WiFi interface
> down and up will get the connection going, sometimes it will crash the
> connection immediately.
>
> Is this a known thing?  I run yum-update weekly and I notice the kernel
> is updated every week (currently 5.14.9), suggesting it's still buggy.
>
> Dale
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss at lists.blu.org
> http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
> .
I imagine if you truly did a distro-sync vs a fresh install 
then there might be issues with networking in general from 
that far back 19->34. Yum is deprecated and points to dnf. 
If you use resolve.conf to configure network connections it 
is nolonger being recognized. You will have to setup your 
connections through NetworkManager or it's client 
application. I installed F34 and had no problem with ssh to 
local machines over wifi. There are some posts on the fedora 
forum regarding the networking changes but you'll have to 
search as it was about a year ago.



-- 
Jim Kelly-Rand
jbk at kjkelra.com

From dcrookston at gmail.com  Thu Oct 14 18:25:37 2021
From: dcrookston at gmail.com (Daniel C.)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2021 16:25:37 -0600
Subject: [Discuss] Off Topic and Proud of It: Untraceable Garage Door
 Openers: No Alexa, No Siri, no nothing
In-Reply-To: <02827F7F-CD7D-4AD4-8A28-65BA1102F342@icloud.com>
References: <b7db0bff78098bf65c67187450474ea6@mykolab.com>
 <02827F7F-CD7D-4AD4-8A28-65BA1102F342@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <CAGjqrSibr7yV4R8+_9uMNnm3PMf_L9QJQuX+cgbZK8CNP0DqFw@mail.gmail.com>

So, if I understand correctly, OP is unable to find a garage door opener
that doesn't have some kind of "smart speaker" integration built in.  And
their conclusion based on this is that the NSA has forced these companies
to make this move?

I have little to no faith in the NSA, or the American government in
general, but this seems like a case of attributing to oversight what could
adequately be explained by profiteering.

Anyway, I agree with Eric.  Make your own.  I'm assuming that the motorized
part that actually moves the garage door is fine, and it's just the little
clicker you keep in your car that's spying on you.  If it's built into the
garage part, try identifying what part of the circuit board is doing what
you don't want and physically disconnecting it.  I imagine it will
incorporate a wireless NIC, and that cutting the traces going to the NIC
would prevent it from phoning home.

-DTC

On Mon, Sep 27, 2021 at 7:06 AM Eric Chadbourne <eric.chadbourne at icloud.com>
wrote:

> You can always make your own.  Could probably do it over the weekend.
> Might be a fun project.
>
> Eric
> Chadbourne Consulting
>
> > On Sep 26, 2021, at 2:54 PM, MC <boumanmcc at mykolab.com> wrote:
> >
> > ?Okay...this is off-topic, but i'm sick and tired of living under
> surveillance in this country and i'm not gonna tolerate the new NSA stunt:
> I can't buy a garage door opener without it having the option for a Siri or
> Alexa authorization. I just want a stupid motorized door......ANY
> SUGGESTIONS????
> > _______________________________________________
> > Discuss mailing list
> > Discuss at lists.blu.org
> > http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss at lists.blu.org
> http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>

From markw at mohawksoft.com  Thu Oct 14 22:53:20 2021
From: markw at mohawksoft.com (markw at mohawksoft.com)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2021 22:53:20 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] Off Topic and Proud of It: Untraceable Garage Door
 Openers: No Alexa, No Siri, no nothing
In-Reply-To: <CAGjqrSibr7yV4R8+_9uMNnm3PMf_L9QJQuX+cgbZK8CNP0DqFw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b7db0bff78098bf65c67187450474ea6@mykolab.com>
 <02827F7F-CD7D-4AD4-8A28-65BA1102F342@icloud.com>
 <CAGjqrSibr7yV4R8+_9uMNnm3PMf_L9QJQuX+cgbZK8CNP0DqFw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <cfe315e1800271895c69b65169d7f4b5.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>

I think your assessment of the NSA is a bit uninformed.

Its easy in these political times to look at the U.S. government as a
bunch of keystone cops and/or nothing more than political hacks.

The real truth is that is congress and the politicians. Its as bad as I've
ever seen it in my 58 years.

However bad it seems in the news, at least to date, almost all of the
departments on which we depend really are staffed by people who take their
job very seriously. The NSA has a job that could quite easily turn evil,
but they are amazingly professional. They really don't care about us, they
aren't "political," and they really do good work. The NSA is not a monster
because of the dedication of the people who run it. Personally, I have
absolutely no fear of the NSA.

I fear the FBI, I fear the state police, I don't fear my local police
because I know a bunch of them, but I do fear the Boston police also
because I know a bunch of them.

You want something to be afraid of? Corporate interests. Civil privacy,
keeping your medical records from insurance companies, stuff like that.


> So, if I understand correctly, OP is unable to find a garage door opener
> that doesn't have some kind of "smart speaker" integration built in.  And
> their conclusion based on this is that the NSA has forced these companies
> to make this move?
>
> I have little to no faith in the NSA, or the American government in
> general, but this seems like a case of attributing to oversight what could
> adequately be explained by profiteering.
>
> Anyway, I agree with Eric.  Make your own.  I'm assuming that the
> motorized
> part that actually moves the garage door is fine, and it's just the little
> clicker you keep in your car that's spying on you.  If it's built into the
> garage part, try identifying what part of the circuit board is doing what
> you don't want and physically disconnecting it.  I imagine it will
> incorporate a wireless NIC, and that cutting the traces going to the NIC
> would prevent it from phoning home.
>
> -DTC
>
> On Mon, Sep 27, 2021 at 7:06 AM Eric Chadbourne
> <eric.chadbourne at icloud.com>
> wrote:
>
>> You can always make your own.  Could probably do it over the weekend.
>> Might be a fun project.
>>
>> Eric
>> Chadbourne Consulting
>>
>> > On Sep 26, 2021, at 2:54 PM, MC <boumanmcc at mykolab.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > ???Okay...this is off-topic, but i'm sick and tired of living under
>> surveillance in this country and i'm not gonna tolerate the new NSA
>> stunt:
>> I can't buy a garage door opener without it having the option for a Siri
>> or
>> Alexa authorization. I just want a stupid motorized door......ANY
>> SUGGESTIONS????
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Discuss mailing list
>> > Discuss at lists.blu.org
>> > http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>> _______________________________________________
>> Discuss mailing list
>> Discuss at lists.blu.org
>> http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss at lists.blu.org
> http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>



From gaf.linux at gmail.com  Fri Oct 15 07:37:14 2021
From: gaf.linux at gmail.com (Jerry Feldman)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2021 07:37:14 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] Boston Linux VIRTUAL Meeting Wednesday, October 20,
 2021 - Hardware Hacking 101: Rogue Keyboards and Eavesdropping
 Cables
Message-ID: <c6e5bd8c-dc0e-4c64-2c03-0a54b7d28ac7@gmail.com>

When:October 20, 2021 7:00PM EDT (6:30PM for Q&A)
Topic: Hardware Hacking 101: Rogue Keyboards and Eavesdropping Cables
Moderator: Federico Lucifredi

Location: Online: https://meet.jit.si/blu.org

Live stream: https://youtu.be/gHTlWhyECpU

Summary:

Federico's new hardware talk

Abstract:

More details will be added later

Bio

Federico Lucifredi is The Ceph Storage Product Management Director at 
Red Hat, formerly the Ubuntu Server PM at Canonical, and the Linux 
?Systems Management Czar? at SUSE.


For further information and directions please consult the BLU Web site:
http://www.blu.org

--
Jerry Feldman <gaf.linux at gmail.com <mailto:gaf.linux at gmail.com>>
Boston Linux and Unix http://www.blu.org
PGP key id: 6F6BB6E7
PGP Key fingerprint: 0EDC 2FF5 53A6 8EED 84D1? 3050 5715 B88D 6F6
B B6E7









_______________________________________________
Announce mailing list
Announce at lists.blu.org
http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/announce

From eric.chadbourne at icloud.com  Fri Oct 15 10:06:02 2021
From: eric.chadbourne at icloud.com (Eric Chadbourne)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2021 14:06:02 -0000
Subject: [Discuss]
 =?utf-8?q?Off_Topic_and_Proud_of_It=3A_Untraceable_Gara?=
 =?utf-8?q?ge_Door_Openers=3A_No_Alexa=2C_No_Siri=2C_no_nothing?=
Message-ID: <da16c303-147b-4cd9-90a7-ed3668f9379d@me.com>

Forgive my chronic knee jerk contrarianism but I feel the opposite.? Of course.? lolI'm a mere server wrestler and speaking out of my pay grade but there is an overwhelming amount of public information documenting chronic lawlessness by the NSA and other three letter friends.I think one of my favorite moves by these folks (I think it was the CIA) was cracking into the laptops of the senators who where supposed to be providing over site.? Aahhahahha.? Good times.I think the intel community is the most dangerous internal threat.? The NSA is part of that.But hey what do I know?? I'm just a citizen and they often don't let me know what they are doing.EricOn Oct 14, 2021, at 10:53 PM, markw at mohawksoft.com wrote:They really don't care about us, theyaren't "political," and they really do good work. The NSA is not a monsterbecause of the dedication of the people who run it. Personally, I haveabsolutely no fear of the NSA.

From eric.chadbourne at icloud.com  Fri Oct 15 11:14:19 2021
From: eric.chadbourne at icloud.com (Eric Chadbourne)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2021 15:14:19 -0000
Subject: [Discuss]
 =?utf-8?q?Off_Topic_and_Proud_of_It=3A_Untraceable_Gara?=
 =?utf-8?q?ge_Door_Openers=3A_No_Alexa=2C_No_Siri=2C_no_nothing?=
Message-ID: <a34d3185-eea5-4cd9-837c-7f0c7f241ca3@me.com>

Getting way off topic but I love this vid from a few years ago of Chuck talking about the intel community.? The look on his face.? Heheh.? https://youtu.be/4Py25LPuv-c?t=39? Eric

From kentborg at borg.org  Fri Oct 15 12:58:52 2021
From: kentborg at borg.org (Kent Borg)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2021 09:58:52 -0700
Subject: [Discuss] Off Topic and Proud of It: Untraceable Garage Door
 Openers: No Alexa, No Siri, no nothing
In-Reply-To: <a34d3185-eea5-4cd9-837c-7f0c7f241ca3@me.com>
References: <a34d3185-eea5-4cd9-837c-7f0c7f241ca3@me.com>
Message-ID: <aa760445-fcf5-1ec7-1aa4-ad051f5d9672@borg.org>

Whatever one thinks of the NSAs abilities or intentions, garage door 
openers being integrated with "smart" speakers is a bad idea. Insecure, 
fragile, buggy.

I'd start with being worried about not being able to open my garage in a 
power outage. Why add internet outage (or other computer mess up) to the 
list of failure modes?

As for what to buy? Get one with the features and price you like best, 
keep it incommunicado (don't connect it to your network, if it brings 
its own cellular data physically disable it), then craft your own 
out-board remote.

Ah: There is the question. What kind of remote do you want? How do you 
build it? Garage remotes are a big security and reliability liability. 
What compromises do you prefer?


-kb, the Kent who does operate a certain garage opener on a regular 
basis, by way of a physical key-switch, installed in such a way that if 
pulled out of the wall the wires will break at a point away from the 
switch and not get pulled out for easy shorting.


From richard.pieri at gmail.com  Fri Oct 15 13:48:04 2021
From: richard.pieri at gmail.com (Rich Pieri)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2021 13:48:04 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] Off Topic and Proud of It: Untraceable Garage Door
 Openers: No Alexa, No Siri, no nothing
In-Reply-To: <CAGjqrSibr7yV4R8+_9uMNnm3PMf_L9QJQuX+cgbZK8CNP0DqFw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b7db0bff78098bf65c67187450474ea6@mykolab.com>
 <02827F7F-CD7D-4AD4-8A28-65BA1102F342@icloud.com>
 <CAGjqrSibr7yV4R8+_9uMNnm3PMf_L9QJQuX+cgbZK8CNP0DqFw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20211015134804.6ec7d02c.Richard.Pieri@gmail.com>

On Thu, 14 Oct 2021 16:25:37 -0600
"Daniel C." <dcrookston at gmail.com> wrote:

> So, if I understand correctly, OP is unable to find a garage door
> opener that doesn't have some kind of "smart speaker" integration
> built in.  And their conclusion based on this is that the NSA has
> forced these companies to make this move?

Nah. OP is just a troll.

-- 
\m/ (--) \m/

From epp at sillydog.org  Sun Oct 17 12:00:46 2021
From: epp at sillydog.org (Edward)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2021 12:00:46 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] Invalid Argument - K3B
Message-ID: <3c89152c-a027-d37e-9da7-7fc891e7df3f@sillydog.org>

Using K3B to burn a Linux OS image to a DVD-R disc (WinValue from Micro 
Center) and the first two discs failed, with an invalid argument. The 
drive appears to work fine and have had no issues with it. Then burned 
the same image to a DVD+R disc (Magnavox) and it burned successfully. 
I'm not aware of any major differences between the + and - discs.

Below is the output from K3B when it fails. It has the option to 
manually input the burn speed, which I input as 2(x), but it continued 
to burn at 6x, which may be the minimum speed for the drive. It fails 
almost at the end of the process after the image is burned, it then 
displays an invalid argument and flushes the cache. This is on Debian 
bullseye (11).

Two questions:

1. Is it possible that DVD-R discs are not designed for ISO's?
2. Could the WinValue discs be junk? They were purchased 2-3 years ago, 
so it would be beyond the return period.

TIA.


Burned media
-----------------------
DVD-R Sequential

Devices
-----------------------
hp DVD-RAM GH80N RF01 (/dev/sr0, CD-R, CD-RW, CD-ROM, DVD-ROM, DVD-R, 
DVD-RW, DVD-R DL, DVD+R, DVD+RW, DVD+R DL) [DVD-ROM, DVD-R Sequential, 
DVD-R Dual Layer Sequential, DVD-R Dual Layer Jump, DVD-RAM, DVD-RW 
Restricted Overwrite, DVD-RW Sequential, DVD+RW, DVD+R, DVD+R Dual 
Layer, CD-ROM, CD-R, CD-RW] [SAO, TAO, RAW, SAO/R96P, SAO/R96R, RAW/R16, 
RAW/R96P, RAW/R96R, Restricted Overwrite, Layer Jump] [%7]

System
-----------------------
K3b Version: 20.12.2
KDE Version: 5.78.0
Qt Version:? 5.15.2
Kernel:????? 5.10.0-9-amd64

Used versions
-----------------------
growisofs: 7.1

growisofs
-----------------------
Executing 'builtin_dd if=/dev/fd/0 of=/dev/sr0 obs=32k seek=0'
/dev/sr0: engaging DVD-R DAO upon user request...
/dev/sr0: reserving 1015802 blocks
/dev/sr0: "Current Write Speed" is 6.1x1352KBps.
 ????????? 0/2080362496 ( 0.0%) @0x, remaining ??:?? RBU 100.0% UBU?? 0.0%
=== last message repeated 4 times. ===
 ?? 17891328/2080362496 ( 0.9%) @3.9x, remaining 34:34 RBU 100.0% UBU? 88.2%
 ?? 45613056/2080362496 ( 2.2%) @6.0x, remaining 15:36 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
 ?? 73367552/2080362496 ( 3.5%) @6.0x, remaining 10:56 RBU? 99.9% UBU 100.0%
 ? 101089280/2080362496 ( 4.9%) @6.0x, remaining 9:08 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
 ? 128811008/2080362496 ( 6.2%) @6.0x, remaining 7:49 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
 ? 156565504/2080362496 ( 7.5%) @6.0x, remaining 6:57 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
 ? 184287232/2080362496 ( 8.9%) @6.0x, remaining 6:30 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
 ? 212041728/2080362496 (10.2%) @6.0x, remaining 6:01 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
 ? 239796224/2080362496 (11.5%) @6.0x, remaining 5:37 RBU? 99.9% UBU 100.0%
 ? 267517952/2080362496 (12.9%) @6.0x, remaining 5:25 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
 ? 295272448/2080362496 (14.2%) @6.0x, remaining 5:08 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
 ? 322994176/2080362496 (15.5%) @6.0x, remaining 4:53 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
 ? 350748672/2080362496 (16.9%) @6.0x, remaining 4:46 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
 ? 378503168/2080362496 (18.2%) @6.0x, remaining 4:34 RBU? 99.9% UBU 100.0%
 ? 406224896/2080362496 (19.5%) @6.0x, remaining 4:23 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
 ? 433979392/2080362496 (20.9%) @6.0x, remaining 4:17 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
 ? 461701120/2080362496 (22.2%) @6.0x, remaining 4:08 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
 ? 489455616/2080362496 (23.5%) @6.0x, remaining 4:03 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
 ? 517210112/2080362496 (24.9%) @6.0x, remaining 3:55 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
 ? 544964608/2080362496 (26.2%) @6.0x, remaining 3:48 RBU? 99.9% UBU 100.0%
 ? 572686336/2080362496 (27.5%) @6.0x, remaining 3:43 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
 ? 600440832/2080362496 (28.9%) @6.0x, remaining 3:36 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
 ? 628195328/2080362496 (30.2%) @6.0x, remaining 3:30 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
 ? 655917056/2080362496 (31.5%) @6.0x, remaining 3:26 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
 ? 683671552/2080362496 (32.9%) @6.0x, remaining 3:20 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
 ? 711426048/2080362496 (34.2%) @6.0x, remaining 3:14 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
 ? 739180544/2080362496 (35.5%) @6.0x, remaining 3:10 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
 ? 766935040/2080362496 (36.9%) @6.0x, remaining 3:04 RBU? 99.9% UBU 100.0%
 ? 794656768/2080362496 (38.2%) @6.0x, remaining 2:59 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
 ? 822411264/2080362496 (39.5%) @6.0x, remaining 2:55 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
 ? 850165760/2080362496 (40.9%) @6.0x, remaining 2:50 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
 ? 877920256/2080362496 (42.2%) @6.0x, remaining 2:45 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
 ? 905674752/2080362496 (43.5%) @6.0x, remaining 2:42 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
 ? 933396480/2080362496 (44.9%) @6.0x, remaining 2:37 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
 ? 961150976/2080362496 (46.2%) @6.0x, remaining 2:32 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
 ? 988905472/2080362496 (47.5%) @6.0x, remaining 2:28 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
 ?1016659968/2080362496 (48.9%) @6.0x, remaining 2:24 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
 ?1044414464/2080362496 (50.2%) @6.0x, remaining 2:19 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
 ?1072168960/2080362496 (51.5%) @6.0x, remaining 2:16 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
 ?1099923456/2080362496 (52.9%) @6.0x, remaining 2:11 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
 ?1127677952/2080362496 (54.2%) @6.0x, remaining 2:07 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
 ?1155432448/2080362496 (55.5%) @6.0x, remaining 2:04 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
 ?1183186944/2080362496 (56.9%) @6.0x, remaining 1:59 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
 ?1210941440/2080362496 (58.2%) @6.0x, remaining 1:55 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
 ?1238663168/2080362496 (59.5%) @6.0x, remaining 1:52 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
 ?1266417664/2080362496 (60.9%) @6.0x, remaining 1:47 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
 ?1294172160/2080362496 (62.2%) @6.0x, remaining 1:43 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
 ?1321926656/2080362496 (63.5%) @6.0x, remaining 1:40 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
 ?1349681152/2080362496 (64.9%) @6.0x, remaining 1:36 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
 ?1377435648/2080362496 (66.2%) @6.0x, remaining 1:32 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
 ?1405190144/2080362496 (67.5%) @6.0x, remaining 1:28 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
 ?1432944640/2080362496 (68.9%) @6.0x, remaining 1:24 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
 ?1460699136/2080362496 (70.2%) @6.0x, remaining 1:21 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
 ?1488453632/2080362496 (71.5%) @6.0x, remaining 1:17 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
 ?1516208128/2080362496 (72.9%) @6.0x, remaining 1:13 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
 ?1543962624/2080362496 (74.2%) @6.0x, remaining 1:09 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
 ?1571717120/2080362496 (75.6%) @6.0x, remaining 1:06 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
 ?1599471616/2080362496 (76.9%) @6.0x, remaining 1:02 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
 ?1627226112/2080362496 (78.2%) @6.0x, remaining 0:58 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
 ?1654980608/2080362496 (79.6%) @6.0x, remaining 0:55 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
 ?1682735104/2080362496 (80.9%) @6.0x, remaining 0:51 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
 ?1710489600/2080362496 (82.2%) @6.0x, remaining 0:47 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
 ?1738244096/2080362496 (83.6%) @6.0x, remaining 0:44 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
 ?1765998592/2080362496 (84.9%) @6.0x, remaining 0:40 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
 ?1793753088/2080362496 (86.2%) @6.0x, remaining 0:36 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
 ?1821507584/2080362496 (87.6%) @6.0x, remaining 0:33 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
 ?1849262080/2080362496 (88.9%) @6.0x, remaining 0:29 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
 ?1877016576/2080362496 (90.2%) @6.0x, remaining 0:26 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
 ?1904771072/2080362496 (91.6%) @6.0x, remaining 0:22 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
 ?1932525568/2080362496 (92.9%) @6.0x, remaining 0:18 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
 ?1960280064/2080362496 (94.2%) @6.0x, remaining 0:15 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
 ?1988034560/2080362496 (95.6%) @6.0x, remaining 0:11 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
 ?2015756288/2080362496 (96.9%) @6.0x, remaining 0:08 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
 ?2043510784/2080362496 (98.2%) @6.0x, remaining 0:04 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
:-[ WRITE at LBA=f7ff0h failed with SK=5h/ASC=21h/ACQ=04h]: Invalid argument
:-( write failed: Invalid argument
/dev/sr0: flushing cache

growisofs command:
-----------------------
/usr/bin/growisofs -Z /dev/sr0=/dev/fd/0 -use-the-force-luke=notray 
-use-the-force-luke=tty -use-the-force-luke=4gms 
-use-the-force-luke=tracksize:1015802 -use-the-force-luke=dao:1015802 
-dvd-compat -speed=2.4 -use-the-force-luke=bufsize:32m



From gaf.linux at gmail.com  Sun Oct 17 12:17:54 2021
From: gaf.linux at gmail.com (Jerry Feldman)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2021 12:17:54 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] Invalid Argument - K3B
In-Reply-To: <3c89152c-a027-d37e-9da7-7fc891e7df3f@sillydog.org>
References: <3c89152c-a027-d37e-9da7-7fc891e7df3f@sillydog.org>
Message-ID: <CAEvgogFWz7s-F2hNpu8PPpKF48KRJq7665G7UfGUb9eWi9E7Ew@mail.gmail.com>

the iso file system was designed for cd and moving forward dvds as well as
usb. I suspect your dvds may be defective. I have not used k3b for years.

--
Jerry Feldman <gaf.linux at gmail.com>
Boston Linux and Unix http://www.blu.org
PGP key id: 6F6BB6E7
PGP Key fingerprint: 0EDC 2FF5 53A6 8EED 84D1  3050 5715 B88D 6F6
B B6E7

On Sun, Oct 17, 2021, 12:02 PM Edward <epp at sillydog.org> wrote:

> Using K3B to burn a Linux OS image to a DVD-R disc (WinValue from Micro
> Center) and the first two discs failed, with an invalid argument. The
> drive appears to work fine and have had no issues with it. Then burned
> the same image to a DVD+R disc (Magnavox) and it burned successfully.
> I'm not aware of any major differences between the + and - discs.
>
> Below is the output from K3B when it fails. It has the option to
> manually input the burn speed, which I input as 2(x), but it continued
> to burn at 6x, which may be the minimum speed for the drive. It fails
> almost at the end of the process after the image is burned, it then
> displays an invalid argument and flushes the cache. This is on Debian
> bullseye (11).
>
> Two questions:
>
> 1. Is it possible that DVD-R discs are not designed for ISO's?
> 2. Could the WinValue discs be junk? They were purchased 2-3 years ago,
> so it would be beyond the return period.
>
> TIA.
>
>
> Burned media
> -----------------------
> DVD-R Sequential
>
> Devices
> -----------------------
> hp DVD-RAM GH80N RF01 (/dev/sr0, CD-R, CD-RW, CD-ROM, DVD-ROM, DVD-R,
> DVD-RW, DVD-R DL, DVD+R, DVD+RW, DVD+R DL) [DVD-ROM, DVD-R Sequential,
> DVD-R Dual Layer Sequential, DVD-R Dual Layer Jump, DVD-RAM, DVD-RW
> Restricted Overwrite, DVD-RW Sequential, DVD+RW, DVD+R, DVD+R Dual
> Layer, CD-ROM, CD-R, CD-RW] [SAO, TAO, RAW, SAO/R96P, SAO/R96R, RAW/R16,
> RAW/R96P, RAW/R96R, Restricted Overwrite, Layer Jump] [%7]
>
> System
> -----------------------
> K3b Version: 20.12.2
> KDE Version: 5.78.0
> Qt Version:  5.15.2
> Kernel:      5.10.0-9-amd64
>
> Used versions
> -----------------------
> growisofs: 7.1
>
> growisofs
> -----------------------
> Executing 'builtin_dd if=/dev/fd/0 of=/dev/sr0 obs=32k seek=0'
> /dev/sr0: engaging DVD-R DAO upon user request...
> /dev/sr0: reserving 1015802 blocks
> /dev/sr0: "Current Write Speed" is 6.1x1352KBps.
>            0/2080362496 ( 0.0%) @0x, remaining ??:?? RBU 100.0% UBU   0.0%
> === last message repeated 4 times. ===
>     17891328/2080362496 ( 0.9%) @3.9x, remaining 34:34 RBU 100.0% UBU
> 88.2%
>     45613056/2080362496 ( 2.2%) @6.0x, remaining 15:36 RBU 100.0% UBU
> 100.0%
>     73367552/2080362496 ( 3.5%) @6.0x, remaining 10:56 RBU  99.9% UBU
> 100.0%
>    101089280/2080362496 ( 4.9%) @6.0x, remaining 9:08 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
>    128811008/2080362496 ( 6.2%) @6.0x, remaining 7:49 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
>    156565504/2080362496 ( 7.5%) @6.0x, remaining 6:57 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
>    184287232/2080362496 ( 8.9%) @6.0x, remaining 6:30 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
>    212041728/2080362496 (10.2%) @6.0x, remaining 6:01 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
>    239796224/2080362496 (11.5%) @6.0x, remaining 5:37 RBU  99.9% UBU 100.0%
>    267517952/2080362496 (12.9%) @6.0x, remaining 5:25 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
>    295272448/2080362496 (14.2%) @6.0x, remaining 5:08 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
>    322994176/2080362496 (15.5%) @6.0x, remaining 4:53 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
>    350748672/2080362496 (16.9%) @6.0x, remaining 4:46 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
>    378503168/2080362496 (18.2%) @6.0x, remaining 4:34 RBU  99.9% UBU 100.0%
>    406224896/2080362496 (19.5%) @6.0x, remaining 4:23 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
>    433979392/2080362496 (20.9%) @6.0x, remaining 4:17 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
>    461701120/2080362496 (22.2%) @6.0x, remaining 4:08 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
>    489455616/2080362496 (23.5%) @6.0x, remaining 4:03 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
>    517210112/2080362496 (24.9%) @6.0x, remaining 3:55 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
>    544964608/2080362496 (26.2%) @6.0x, remaining 3:48 RBU  99.9% UBU 100.0%
>    572686336/2080362496 (27.5%) @6.0x, remaining 3:43 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
>    600440832/2080362496 (28.9%) @6.0x, remaining 3:36 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
>    628195328/2080362496 (30.2%) @6.0x, remaining 3:30 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
>    655917056/2080362496 (31.5%) @6.0x, remaining 3:26 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
>    683671552/2080362496 (32.9%) @6.0x, remaining 3:20 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
>    711426048/2080362496 (34.2%) @6.0x, remaining 3:14 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
>    739180544/2080362496 (35.5%) @6.0x, remaining 3:10 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
>    766935040/2080362496 (36.9%) @6.0x, remaining 3:04 RBU  99.9% UBU 100.0%
>    794656768/2080362496 (38.2%) @6.0x, remaining 2:59 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
>    822411264/2080362496 (39.5%) @6.0x, remaining 2:55 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
>    850165760/2080362496 (40.9%) @6.0x, remaining 2:50 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
>    877920256/2080362496 (42.2%) @6.0x, remaining 2:45 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
>    905674752/2080362496 (43.5%) @6.0x, remaining 2:42 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
>    933396480/2080362496 (44.9%) @6.0x, remaining 2:37 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
>    961150976/2080362496 (46.2%) @6.0x, remaining 2:32 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
>    988905472/2080362496 (47.5%) @6.0x, remaining 2:28 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
>   1016659968/2080362496 (48.9%) @6.0x, remaining 2:24 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
>   1044414464/2080362496 (50.2%) @6.0x, remaining 2:19 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
>   1072168960/2080362496 (51.5%) @6.0x, remaining 2:16 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
>   1099923456/2080362496 (52.9%) @6.0x, remaining 2:11 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
>   1127677952/2080362496 (54.2%) @6.0x, remaining 2:07 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
>   1155432448/2080362496 (55.5%) @6.0x, remaining 2:04 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
>   1183186944/2080362496 (56.9%) @6.0x, remaining 1:59 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
>   1210941440/2080362496 (58.2%) @6.0x, remaining 1:55 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
>   1238663168/2080362496 (59.5%) @6.0x, remaining 1:52 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
>   1266417664/2080362496 (60.9%) @6.0x, remaining 1:47 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
>   1294172160/2080362496 (62.2%) @6.0x, remaining 1:43 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
>   1321926656/2080362496 (63.5%) @6.0x, remaining 1:40 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
>   1349681152/2080362496 (64.9%) @6.0x, remaining 1:36 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
>   1377435648/2080362496 (66.2%) @6.0x, remaining 1:32 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
>   1405190144/2080362496 (67.5%) @6.0x, remaining 1:28 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
>   1432944640/2080362496 (68.9%) @6.0x, remaining 1:24 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
>   1460699136/2080362496 (70.2%) @6.0x, remaining 1:21 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
>   1488453632/2080362496 (71.5%) @6.0x, remaining 1:17 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
>   1516208128/2080362496 (72.9%) @6.0x, remaining 1:13 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
>   1543962624/2080362496 (74.2%) @6.0x, remaining 1:09 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
>   1571717120/2080362496 (75.6%) @6.0x, remaining 1:06 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
>   1599471616/2080362496 (76.9%) @6.0x, remaining 1:02 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
>   1627226112/2080362496 (78.2%) @6.0x, remaining 0:58 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
>   1654980608/2080362496 (79.6%) @6.0x, remaining 0:55 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
>   1682735104/2080362496 (80.9%) @6.0x, remaining 0:51 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
>   1710489600/2080362496 (82.2%) @6.0x, remaining 0:47 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
>   1738244096/2080362496 (83.6%) @6.0x, remaining 0:44 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
>   1765998592/2080362496 (84.9%) @6.0x, remaining 0:40 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
>   1793753088/2080362496 (86.2%) @6.0x, remaining 0:36 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
>   1821507584/2080362496 (87.6%) @6.0x, remaining 0:33 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
>   1849262080/2080362496 (88.9%) @6.0x, remaining 0:29 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
>   1877016576/2080362496 (90.2%) @6.0x, remaining 0:26 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
>   1904771072/2080362496 (91.6%) @6.0x, remaining 0:22 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
>   1932525568/2080362496 (92.9%) @6.0x, remaining 0:18 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
>   1960280064/2080362496 (94.2%) @6.0x, remaining 0:15 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
>   1988034560/2080362496 (95.6%) @6.0x, remaining 0:11 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
>   2015756288/2080362496 (96.9%) @6.0x, remaining 0:08 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
>   2043510784/2080362496 (98.2%) @6.0x, remaining 0:04 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0%
> :-[ WRITE at LBA=f7ff0h failed with SK=5h/ASC=21h/ACQ=04h]: Invalid argument
> :-( write failed: Invalid argument
> /dev/sr0: flushing cache
>
> growisofs command:
> -----------------------
> /usr/bin/growisofs -Z /dev/sr0=/dev/fd/0 -use-the-force-luke=notray
> -use-the-force-luke=tty -use-the-force-luke=4gms
> -use-the-force-luke=tracksize:1015802 -use-the-force-luke=dao:1015802
> -dvd-compat -speed=2.4 -use-the-force-luke=bufsize:32m
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss at lists.blu.org
> http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>

From richard.pieri at gmail.com  Sun Oct 17 13:02:01 2021
From: richard.pieri at gmail.com (Rich Pieri)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2021 13:02:01 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] Invalid Argument - K3B
In-Reply-To: <3c89152c-a027-d37e-9da7-7fc891e7df3f@sillydog.org>
References: <3c89152c-a027-d37e-9da7-7fc891e7df3f@sillydog.org>
Message-ID: <20211017130201.00004dd1.Richard.Pieri@gmail.com>

On Sun, 17 Oct 2021 12:00:46 -0400
Edward <epp at sillydog.org> wrote:

> 1. Is it possible that DVD-R discs are not designed for ISO's?

No. ISO (aka ISO 9660) is the base file system for all general
purpose optical media.

> 2. Could the WinValue discs be junk? They were purchased 2-3 years
> ago, so it would be beyond the return period.

If the manufacturer isn't one of these then it's junk: Verbatim (but
not the Value and Life series), JVC/Taiyo-Yuden, Sony. Pioneer and TDK
stopped manufacturing optical media years ago so anything you get now
is old stock. Might be okay if the packaging seal is intact.

-- 
\m/ (--) \m/

From dbarrett at blazemonger.com  Sun Oct 17 13:24:03 2021
From: dbarrett at blazemonger.com (Daniel Barrett)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2021 13:24:03 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] Off Topic and Proud of It: Untraceable Garage	Door
	Openers: No Alexa, No Siri, no nothing
References: <aa760445-fcf5-1ec7-1aa4-ad051f5d9672@borg.org>
Message-ID: <24940.23603.938754.406438@blazemonger.com>

On October 15, 2021, Kent Borg wrote:
>I'd start with being worried about not being able to open my garage in a 
>power outage.

No worries - every powered garage door I've ever seen can also be
opened manually from the inside. Just pull a ripcord and lift the
door.

If you're on the outside and can't get in, there's usually an exterior
keyhole on the door that, when opened with the right key, lets you
yank the ripcord from the outside.

Dan

From epp at sillydog.org  Sun Oct 17 13:40:18 2021
From: epp at sillydog.org (Edward)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2021 13:40:18 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] Invalid Argument - K3B
In-Reply-To: <20211017130201.00004dd1.Richard.Pieri@gmail.com>
References: <3c89152c-a027-d37e-9da7-7fc891e7df3f@sillydog.org>
 <20211017130201.00004dd1.Richard.Pieri@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3d65626e-c574-eefb-ac80-d089aa8e0e62@sillydog.org>

On 10/17/21 1:02 PM, Rich Pieri wrote:
> On Sun, 17 Oct 2021 12:00:46 -0400
> Edward <epp at sillydog.org> wrote:
>
>> 1. Is it possible that DVD-R discs are not designed for ISO's?
> No. ISO (aka ISO 9660) is the base file system for all general
> purpose optical media.
>
>> 2. Could the WinValue discs be junk? They were purchased 2-3 years
>> ago, so it would be beyond the return period.
> If the manufacturer isn't one of these then it's junk: Verbatim (but
> not the Value and Life series), JVC/Taiyo-Yuden, Sony. Pioneer and TDK
> stopped manufacturing optical media years ago so anything you get now
> is old stock. Might be okay if the packaging seal is intact.

Closer to the hub, there is a reference to Optodisc 
https://optodiscamerica.com/, https://www.optodisc.com/ (Taiwan). They 
appear to be the manufacturer.

As to the Magnavox discs, the wrapper indicates they're made in Taiwan, 
but there is nothing on the disc or wrapper indicating who the 
manufacturer might be.

Thank you for the info re the other manufacturers.


From ethanms at bu.edu  Sun Oct 17 15:28:37 2021
From: ethanms at bu.edu (Ethan Schwartz)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2021 15:28:37 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] Off Topic and Proud of It: Untraceable Garage	Door
	Openers: No Alexa, No Siri, no nothing
In-Reply-To: <24940.23603.938754.406438@blazemonger.com>
References: <24940.23603.938754.406438@blazemonger.com>
Message-ID: <FE0A31E6-D96D-4386-91CB-4D681180058D@bu.edu>


> On Oct 17, 2021, at 13:25, Daniel Barrett <dbarrett at blazemonger.com> wrote:
> 
> ?On October 15, 2021, Kent Borg wrote:
>> I'd start with being worried about not being able to open my garage in a 
>> power outage.
> 
> No worries - every powered garage door I've ever seen can also be
> opened manually from the inside. Just pull a ripcord and lift the
> door.


In addition to the manual release option many of today's DC motor openers (often marketed as "ultra quiet" or "soft open/close") also incorporate a ~7Ah 12V SLA battery which can raise and lower the door several times when activated by RF remote.

A few months ago I pulled up to my house on a lovely sunny day and wondered why my garage door was opening more slowly than usual, I was in the house a minute or two before I realized the power was out -- someone had hit a street-side transformer a mile or two away and power was out for 14 hours.

Really a great feature if accessing the interior using a people-door is problematic (my mother's condo has _only_ the garage door, so the backup battery is great peace of mind).

To stay on topic a bit: I found WiFi was not powered by the DC battery in my Chamberlain opener, just the RF for the remote and power for the wall mounted control.

-Ethan

From epp at sillydog.org  Mon Oct 18 20:15:40 2021
From: epp at sillydog.org (Edward)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2021 20:15:40 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] Virt-Manager
Message-ID: <99870ed0-deb6-e9df-dfac-de671104f7f2@sillydog.org>

Installed virt-manager on Debian 11 tonight in an attempt to install a 
Linux image (Lubuntu). The live DVD of the image ran fine, it found the 
wired network connection, but did not receive an IP address, 
network-manager indicated the IPv4 and IPv6 were to receive the IP's via 
DHCP.

When I tried pinging sites such as Yahoo, ping actually displayed the 
IPv4 address of the site, but for all of them, it said the destination 
was unreachable.

Did I possibly miss a step somewhere?

TIA.


From dsr at randomstring.org  Mon Oct 18 20:20:40 2021
From: dsr at randomstring.org (Dan Ritter)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2021 20:20:40 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] Virt-Manager
In-Reply-To: <99870ed0-deb6-e9df-dfac-de671104f7f2@sillydog.org>
References: <99870ed0-deb6-e9df-dfac-de671104f7f2@sillydog.org>
Message-ID: <20211019002040.5quarkwtehz3encq@randomstring.org>

Edward wrote: 
> Installed virt-manager on Debian 11 tonight in an attempt to install a Linux
> image (Lubuntu). The live DVD of the image ran fine, it found the wired
> network connection, but did not receive an IP address, network-manager
> indicated the IPv4 and IPv6 were to receive the IP's via DHCP.
> 
> When I tried pinging sites such as Yahoo, ping actually displayed the IPv4
> address of the site, but for all of them, it said the destination was
> unreachable.
> 
> Did I possibly miss a step somewhere?

Is your Debian host providing a bridged, forwarded or
masqueraded network to the VM?

-dsr-

From epp at sillydog.org  Mon Oct 18 21:20:45 2021
From: epp at sillydog.org (Edward)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2021 21:20:45 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] Virt-Manager
In-Reply-To: <20211019002040.5quarkwtehz3encq@randomstring.org>
References: <99870ed0-deb6-e9df-dfac-de671104f7f2@sillydog.org>
 <20211019002040.5quarkwtehz3encq@randomstring.org>
Message-ID: <0C871447-9574-4F97-9104-E739FD0562BC@sillydog.org>

I missed a setting, found it afterwards, it defaults to Virtual Network (NAT) and the box to start it automatically was initially not checked.

It's working now.



On October 18, 2021 8:20:40 PM EDT, Dan Ritter <dsr at randomstring.org> wrote:
>Edward wrote: 
>> Installed virt-manager on Debian 11 tonight in an attempt to install a Linux
>> image (Lubuntu). The live DVD of the image ran fine, it found the wired
>> network connection, but did not receive an IP address, network-manager
>> indicated the IPv4 and IPv6 were to receive the IP's via DHCP.
>> 
>> When I tried pinging sites such as Yahoo, ping actually displayed the IPv4
>> address of the site, but for all of them, it said the destination was
>> unreachable.
>> 
>> Did I possibly miss a step somewhere?
>
>Is your Debian host providing a bridged, forwarded or
>masqueraded network to the VM?
>
>-dsr-
>

From gaf.linux at gmail.com  Mon Oct 18 21:37:36 2021
From: gaf.linux at gmail.com (Jerry Feldman)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2021 21:37:36 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] Virt-Manager
In-Reply-To: <0C871447-9574-4F97-9104-E739FD0562BC@sillydog.org>
References: <99870ed0-deb6-e9df-dfac-de671104f7f2@sillydog.org>
 <20211019002040.5quarkwtehz3encq@randomstring.org>
 <0C871447-9574-4F97-9104-E739FD0562BC@sillydog.org>
Message-ID: <CAEvgogFYM_YwHn9nz2FvxSZGdn132thRj4N4YwCmq82RiJHU0g@mail.gmail.com>

Good

--
Jerry Feldman <gaf.linux at gmail.com>
Boston Linux and Unix http://www.blu.org
PGP key id: 6F6BB6E7
PGP Key fingerprint: 0EDC 2FF5 53A6 8EED 84D1  3050 5715 B88D 6F6
B B6E7

On Mon, Oct 18, 2021, 9:23 PM Edward <epp at sillydog.org> wrote:

> I missed a setting, found it afterwards, it defaults to Virtual Network
> (NAT) and the box to start it automatically was initially not checked.
>
> It's working now.
>
>
>
> On October 18, 2021 8:20:40 PM EDT, Dan Ritter <dsr at randomstring.org>
> wrote:
> >Edward wrote:
> >> Installed virt-manager on Debian 11 tonight in an attempt to install a
> Linux
> >> image (Lubuntu). The live DVD of the image ran fine, it found the wired
> >> network connection, but did not receive an IP address, network-manager
> >> indicated the IPv4 and IPv6 were to receive the IP's via DHCP.
> >>
> >> When I tried pinging sites such as Yahoo, ping actually displayed the
> IPv4
> >> address of the site, but for all of them, it said the destination was
> >> unreachable.
> >>
> >> Did I possibly miss a step somewhere?
> >
> >Is your Debian host providing a bridged, forwarded or
> >masqueraded network to the VM?
> >
> >-dsr-
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss at lists.blu.org
> http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>

From epp at sillydog.org  Tue Oct 19 11:33:10 2021
From: epp at sillydog.org (Edward)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2021 11:33:10 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] Virt-Manager
In-Reply-To: <0C871447-9574-4F97-9104-E739FD0562BC@sillydog.org>
References: <99870ed0-deb6-e9df-dfac-de671104f7f2@sillydog.org>
 <20211019002040.5quarkwtehz3encq@randomstring.org>
 <0C871447-9574-4F97-9104-E739FD0562BC@sillydog.org>
Message-ID: <c85d819c-941d-c4cb-e2ff-dbcb161d1f3a@sillydog.org>

On 10/18/21 9:20 PM, Edward wrote:
> I missed a setting, found it afterwards, it defaults to Virtual Network (NAT) and the box to start it automatically was initially not checked.
>
> It's working now.
>

And it (take your pick):

  * is slow as molasses
  * runs at a snail's pace


Not even worth using. Gnome Boxes on Fedora 33 ran far better and faster 
than Virt Manager does on Debian.


From gaf.linux at gmail.com  Tue Oct 19 12:03:02 2021
From: gaf.linux at gmail.com (Jerry Feldman)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2021 12:03:02 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] Virt-Manager
In-Reply-To: <c85d819c-941d-c4cb-e2ff-dbcb161d1f3a@sillydog.org>
References: <99870ed0-deb6-e9df-dfac-de671104f7f2@sillydog.org>
 <20211019002040.5quarkwtehz3encq@randomstring.org>
 <0C871447-9574-4F97-9104-E739FD0562BC@sillydog.org>
 <c85d819c-941d-c4cb-e2ff-dbcb161d1f3a@sillydog.org>
Message-ID: <CAEvgogFK=TBK43XpMyjqDMgQfjWHqgdedrbQPc1obWPvLSOezA@mail.gmail.com>

How are you measuring speeds.


Both virt-manager and gnome boxes use lib-virt. Networking might be
affecting your speeds. If i recall, gnome boxes does not give you any
choices.

--
Jerry Feldman <gaf.linux at gmail.com>
Boston Linux and Unix http://www.blu.org
PGP key id: 6F6BB6E7
PGP Key fingerprint: 0EDC 2FF5 53A6 8EED 84D1  3050 5715 B88D 6F6
B B6E7

On Tue, Oct 19, 2021, 11:35 AM Edward <epp at sillydog.org> wrote:

> On 10/18/21 9:20 PM, Edward wrote:
> > I missed a setting, found it afterwards, it defaults to Virtual Network
> (NAT) and the box to start it automatically was initially not checked.
> >
> > It's working now.
> >
>
> And it (take your pick):
>
>   * is slow as molasses
>   * runs at a snail's pace
>
>
> Not even worth using. Gnome Boxes on Fedora 33 ran far better and faster
> than Virt Manager does on Debian.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss at lists.blu.org
> http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>

From epp at sillydog.org  Tue Oct 19 12:12:07 2021
From: epp at sillydog.org (Edward)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2021 12:12:07 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] Virt-Manager
In-Reply-To: <CAEvgogFK=TBK43XpMyjqDMgQfjWHqgdedrbQPc1obWPvLSOezA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <99870ed0-deb6-e9df-dfac-de671104f7f2@sillydog.org>
 <20211019002040.5quarkwtehz3encq@randomstring.org>
 <0C871447-9574-4F97-9104-E739FD0562BC@sillydog.org>
 <c85d819c-941d-c4cb-e2ff-dbcb161d1f3a@sillydog.org>
 <CAEvgogFK=TBK43XpMyjqDMgQfjWHqgdedrbQPc1obWPvLSOezA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <65230951-6b72-4024-0de3-b1176b4d25d3@sillydog.org>

Operational speed, not network speed. The Lubuntu team provided Firefox 
as a Debian package in the image and once everything was said and done 
(and networking was running), it would take 30-seconds to 1 minute for 
Firefox to appear, once launched. I didn't test network speeds, but I 
can say that the YouTube home page was extremely slow to load in.

When I had G Boxes on F33, Firefox launched in a matter of seconds in a 
box. This was on the exact same hardware.


On 10/19/21 12:03 PM, Jerry Feldman wrote:
> How are you measuring speeds.
>
>
> Both virt-manager and gnome boxes use lib-virt. Networking might be 
> affecting your speeds. If i recall, gnome boxes does not give you any 
> choices.
>
> --
> Jerry Feldman <gaf.linux at gmail.com <mailto:gaf.linux at gmail.com>>
> Boston Linux and Unix http://www.blu.org <http://www.blu.org>
> PGP key id: 6F6BB6E7
> PGP Key fingerprint: 0EDC 2FF5 53A6 8EED 84D1? 3050 5715 B88D 6F6
> B B6E7
>
> On Tue, Oct 19, 2021, 11:35 AM Edward <epp at sillydog.org 
> <mailto:epp at sillydog.org>> wrote:
>
>     On 10/18/21 9:20 PM, Edward wrote:
>     > I missed a setting, found it afterwards, it defaults to Virtual
>     Network (NAT) and the box to start it automatically was initially
>     not checked.
>     >
>     > It's working now.
>     >
>
>     And it (take your pick):
>
>     ? * is slow as molasses
>     ? * runs at a snail's pace
>
>
>     Not even worth using. Gnome Boxes on Fedora 33 ran far better and
>     faster
>     than Virt Manager does on Debian.
>


From gaf.linux at gmail.com  Tue Oct 19 12:20:51 2021
From: gaf.linux at gmail.com (Jerry Feldman)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2021 12:20:51 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] Virt-Manager
In-Reply-To: <65230951-6b72-4024-0de3-b1176b4d25d3@sillydog.org>
References: <99870ed0-deb6-e9df-dfac-de671104f7f2@sillydog.org>
 <20211019002040.5quarkwtehz3encq@randomstring.org>
 <0C871447-9574-4F97-9104-E739FD0562BC@sillydog.org>
 <c85d819c-941d-c4cb-e2ff-dbcb161d1f3a@sillydog.org>
 <CAEvgogFK=TBK43XpMyjqDMgQfjWHqgdedrbQPc1obWPvLSOezA@mail.gmail.com>
 <65230951-6b72-4024-0de3-b1176b4d25d3@sillydog.org>
Message-ID: <CAEvgogEHxkuwLn-ZZCkUuaZ7_j9z-VaFWHgzfikvoSou-k5EyQ@mail.gmail.com>

What about your memory settings. In virt-manager you can set the memory.
Try assigning more memory to the vm

--
Jerry Feldman <gaf.linux at gmail.com>
Boston Linux and Unix http://www.blu.org
PGP key id: 6F6BB6E7
PGP Key fingerprint: 0EDC 2FF5 53A6 8EED 84D1  3050 5715 B88D 6F6
B B6E7

On Tue, Oct 19, 2021, 12:14 PM Edward <epp at sillydog.org> wrote:

> Operational speed, not network speed. The Lubuntu team provided Firefox
> as a Debian package in the image and once everything was said and done
> (and networking was running), it would take 30-seconds to 1 minute for
> Firefox to appear, once launched. I didn't test network speeds, but I
> can say that the YouTube home page was extremely slow to load in.
>
> When I had G Boxes on F33, Firefox launched in a matter of seconds in a
> box. This was on the exact same hardware.
>
>
> On 10/19/21 12:03 PM, Jerry Feldman wrote:
> > How are you measuring speeds.
> >
> >
> > Both virt-manager and gnome boxes use lib-virt. Networking might be
> > affecting your speeds. If i recall, gnome boxes does not give you any
> > choices.
> >
> > --
> > Jerry Feldman <gaf.linux at gmail.com <mailto:gaf.linux at gmail.com>>
> > Boston Linux and Unix http://www.blu.org <http://www.blu.org>
> > PGP key id: 6F6BB6E7
> > PGP Key fingerprint: 0EDC 2FF5 53A6 8EED 84D1  3050 5715 B88D 6F6
> > B B6E7
> >
> > On Tue, Oct 19, 2021, 11:35 AM Edward <epp at sillydog.org
> > <mailto:epp at sillydog.org>> wrote:
> >
> >     On 10/18/21 9:20 PM, Edward wrote:
> >     > I missed a setting, found it afterwards, it defaults to Virtual
> >     Network (NAT) and the box to start it automatically was initially
> >     not checked.
> >     >
> >     > It's working now.
> >     >
> >
> >     And it (take your pick):
> >
> >       * is slow as molasses
> >       * runs at a snail's pace
> >
> >
> >     Not even worth using. Gnome Boxes on Fedora 33 ran far better and
> >     faster
> >     than Virt Manager does on Debian.
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss at lists.blu.org
> http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>

From epp at sillydog.org  Tue Oct 19 12:37:56 2021
From: epp at sillydog.org (Edward)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2021 12:37:56 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] Virt-Manager
In-Reply-To: <CAEvgogEHxkuwLn-ZZCkUuaZ7_j9z-VaFWHgzfikvoSou-k5EyQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <99870ed0-deb6-e9df-dfac-de671104f7f2@sillydog.org>
 <20211019002040.5quarkwtehz3encq@randomstring.org>
 <0C871447-9574-4F97-9104-E739FD0562BC@sillydog.org>
 <c85d819c-941d-c4cb-e2ff-dbcb161d1f3a@sillydog.org>
 <CAEvgogFK=TBK43XpMyjqDMgQfjWHqgdedrbQPc1obWPvLSOezA@mail.gmail.com>
 <65230951-6b72-4024-0de3-b1176b4d25d3@sillydog.org>
 <CAEvgogEHxkuwLn-ZZCkUuaZ7_j9z-VaFWHgzfikvoSou-k5EyQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <05f4c473-d2df-5560-b5e1-8b60a1bb73eb@sillydog.org>

I did all that. Allocated 25Gb pf space, 4Gb RAM (out of 8 total) and (a 
setting I did not see in Gnome Boxes) number of CPU cores (?) (was set 
to 2).

Unless the image didn't install correctly for some reason?


On 10/19/21 12:20 PM, Jerry Feldman wrote:
> What about your memory settings. In virt-manager you can set the 
> memory. Try assigning more memory to the vm
>
> --
> Jerry Feldman <gaf.linux at gmail.com <mailto:gaf.linux at gmail.com>>
> Boston Linux and Unix http://www.blu.org <http://www.blu.org>
> PGP key id: 6F6BB6E7
> PGP Key fingerprint: 0EDC 2FF5 53A6 8EED 84D1? 3050 5715 B88D 6F6
> B B6E7
>
> On Tue, Oct 19, 2021, 12:14 PM Edward <epp at sillydog.org 
> <mailto:epp at sillydog.org>> wrote:
>
>     Operational speed, not network speed. The Lubuntu team provided
>     Firefox
>     as a Debian package in the image and once everything was said and
>     done
>     (and networking was running), it would take 30-seconds to 1 minute
>     for
>     Firefox to appear, once launched. I didn't test network speeds, but I
>     can say that the YouTube home page was extremely slow to load in.
>
>     When I had G Boxes on F33, Firefox launched in a matter of seconds
>     in a
>     box. This was on the exact same hardware.
>
>
>     On 10/19/21 12:03 PM, Jerry Feldman wrote:
>     > How are you measuring speeds.
>     >
>     >
>     > Both virt-manager and gnome boxes use lib-virt. Networking might be
>     > affecting your speeds. If i recall, gnome boxes does not give
>     you any
>     > choices.
>     >
>     > --
>     > Jerry Feldman <gaf.linux at gmail.com <mailto:gaf.linux at gmail.com>
>     <mailto:gaf.linux at gmail.com <mailto:gaf.linux at gmail.com>>>
>     > Boston Linux and Unix http://www.blu.org <http://www.blu.org>
>     <http://www.blu.org <http://www.blu.org>>
>     > PGP key id: 6F6BB6E7
>     > PGP Key fingerprint: 0EDC 2FF5 53A6 8EED 84D1? 3050 5715 B88D 6F6
>     > B B6E7
>     >
>     > On Tue, Oct 19, 2021, 11:35 AM Edward <epp at sillydog.org
>     <mailto:epp at sillydog.org>
>     > <mailto:epp at sillydog.org <mailto:epp at sillydog.org>>> wrote:
>     >
>     >? ? ?On 10/18/21 9:20 PM, Edward wrote:
>     >? ? ?> I missed a setting, found it afterwards, it defaults to
>     Virtual
>     >? ? ?Network (NAT) and the box to start it automatically was
>     initially
>     >? ? ?not checked.
>     >? ? ?>
>     >? ? ?> It's working now.
>     >? ? ?>
>     >
>     >? ? ?And it (take your pick):
>     >
>     >? ? ?? * is slow as molasses
>     >? ? ?? * runs at a snail's pace
>     >
>     >
>     >? ? ?Not even worth using. Gnome Boxes on Fedora 33 ran far
>     better and
>     >? ? ?faster
>     >? ? ?than Virt Manager does on Debian.
>     >
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     Discuss mailing list
>     Discuss at lists.blu.org <mailto:Discuss at lists.blu.org>
>     http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>     <http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss>
>


From gaf.linux at gmail.com  Tue Oct 19 13:04:03 2021
From: gaf.linux at gmail.com (Jerry Feldman)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2021 13:04:03 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] Virt-Manager
In-Reply-To: <05f4c473-d2df-5560-b5e1-8b60a1bb73eb@sillydog.org>
References: <99870ed0-deb6-e9df-dfac-de671104f7f2@sillydog.org>
 <20211019002040.5quarkwtehz3encq@randomstring.org>
 <0C871447-9574-4F97-9104-E739FD0562BC@sillydog.org>
 <c85d819c-941d-c4cb-e2ff-dbcb161d1f3a@sillydog.org>
 <CAEvgogFK=TBK43XpMyjqDMgQfjWHqgdedrbQPc1obWPvLSOezA@mail.gmail.com>
 <65230951-6b72-4024-0de3-b1176b4d25d3@sillydog.org>
 <CAEvgogEHxkuwLn-ZZCkUuaZ7_j9z-VaFWHgzfikvoSou-k5EyQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <05f4c473-d2df-5560-b5e1-8b60a1bb73eb@sillydog.org>
Message-ID: <CAEvgogGSPk7Cu82zSCeKqKN-UXvFF6MQyWM7=4wu7tTRn8oumg@mail.gmail.com>

Is your CPU dual core or does it have more cores.
You might try adjusting the settings. I've had multiple vms running on a
net book with an atom processor.

--
Jerry Feldman <gaf.linux at gmail.com>
Boston Linux and Unix http://www.blu.org
PGP key id: 6F6BB6E7
PGP Key fingerprint: 0EDC 2FF5 53A6 8EED 84D1  3050 5715 B88D 6F6
B B6E7

On Tue, Oct 19, 2021, 12:40 PM Edward <epp at sillydog.org> wrote:

> I did all that. Allocated 25Gb pf space, 4Gb RAM (out of 8 total) and (a
> setting I did not see in Gnome Boxes) number of CPU cores (?) (was set
> to 2).
>
> Unless the image didn't install correctly for some reason?
>
>
> On 10/19/21 12:20 PM, Jerry Feldman wrote:
> > What about your memory settings. In virt-manager you can set the
> > memory. Try assigning more memory to the vm
> >
> > --
> > Jerry Feldman <gaf.linux at gmail.com <mailto:gaf.linux at gmail.com>>
> > Boston Linux and Unix http://www.blu.org <http://www.blu.org>
> > PGP key id: 6F6BB6E7
> > PGP Key fingerprint: 0EDC 2FF5 53A6 8EED 84D1  3050 5715 B88D 6F6
> > B B6E7
> >
> > On Tue, Oct 19, 2021, 12:14 PM Edward <epp at sillydog.org
> > <mailto:epp at sillydog.org>> wrote:
> >
> >     Operational speed, not network speed. The Lubuntu team provided
> >     Firefox
> >     as a Debian package in the image and once everything was said and
> >     done
> >     (and networking was running), it would take 30-seconds to 1 minute
> >     for
> >     Firefox to appear, once launched. I didn't test network speeds, but I
> >     can say that the YouTube home page was extremely slow to load in.
> >
> >     When I had G Boxes on F33, Firefox launched in a matter of seconds
> >     in a
> >     box. This was on the exact same hardware.
> >
> >
> >     On 10/19/21 12:03 PM, Jerry Feldman wrote:
> >     > How are you measuring speeds.
> >     >
> >     >
> >     > Both virt-manager and gnome boxes use lib-virt. Networking might be
> >     > affecting your speeds. If i recall, gnome boxes does not give
> >     you any
> >     > choices.
> >     >
> >     > --
> >     > Jerry Feldman <gaf.linux at gmail.com <mailto:gaf.linux at gmail.com>
> >     <mailto:gaf.linux at gmail.com <mailto:gaf.linux at gmail.com>>>
> >     > Boston Linux and Unix http://www.blu.org <http://www.blu.org>
> >     <http://www.blu.org <http://www.blu.org>>
> >     > PGP key id: 6F6BB6E7
> >     > PGP Key fingerprint: 0EDC 2FF5 53A6 8EED 84D1  3050 5715 B88D 6F6
> >     > B B6E7
> >     >
> >     > On Tue, Oct 19, 2021, 11:35 AM Edward <epp at sillydog.org
> >     <mailto:epp at sillydog.org>
> >     > <mailto:epp at sillydog.org <mailto:epp at sillydog.org>>> wrote:
> >     >
> >     >     On 10/18/21 9:20 PM, Edward wrote:
> >     >     > I missed a setting, found it afterwards, it defaults to
> >     Virtual
> >     >     Network (NAT) and the box to start it automatically was
> >     initially
> >     >     not checked.
> >     >     >
> >     >     > It's working now.
> >     >     >
> >     >
> >     >     And it (take your pick):
> >     >
> >     >       * is slow as molasses
> >     >       * runs at a snail's pace
> >     >
> >     >
> >     >     Not even worth using. Gnome Boxes on Fedora 33 ran far
> >     better and
> >     >     faster
> >     >     than Virt Manager does on Debian.
> >     >
> >
> >     _______________________________________________
> >     Discuss mailing list
> >     Discuss at lists.blu.org <mailto:Discuss at lists.blu.org>
> >     http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
> >     <http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss>
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss at lists.blu.org
> http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>

From epp at sillydog.org  Tue Oct 19 13:42:47 2021
From: epp at sillydog.org (Edward)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2021 13:42:47 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] Virt-Manager
In-Reply-To: <CAEvgogGSPk7Cu82zSCeKqKN-UXvFF6MQyWM7=4wu7tTRn8oumg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <99870ed0-deb6-e9df-dfac-de671104f7f2@sillydog.org>
 <20211019002040.5quarkwtehz3encq@randomstring.org>
 <0C871447-9574-4F97-9104-E739FD0562BC@sillydog.org>
 <c85d819c-941d-c4cb-e2ff-dbcb161d1f3a@sillydog.org>
 <CAEvgogFK=TBK43XpMyjqDMgQfjWHqgdedrbQPc1obWPvLSOezA@mail.gmail.com>
 <65230951-6b72-4024-0de3-b1176b4d25d3@sillydog.org>
 <CAEvgogEHxkuwLn-ZZCkUuaZ7_j9z-VaFWHgzfikvoSou-k5EyQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <05f4c473-d2df-5560-b5e1-8b60a1bb73eb@sillydog.org>
 <CAEvgogGSPk7Cu82zSCeKqKN-UXvFF6MQyWM7=4wu7tTRn8oumg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BBC8B6E6-FDD7-439E-AA59-3A6ECF22A4F4@sillydog.org>

It is a dual-core CPU.

I deleted the VM and am reinstalling it. The only changes made, are that the space is now 30GiB vs 25 and the OS selected is 'Generic OS' vs 'Ubuntu 20.10'.

Might work...might not.


From epp at sillydog.org  Tue Oct 19 15:53:56 2021
From: epp at sillydog.org (Edward)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2021 15:53:56 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] Virt-Manager
In-Reply-To: <BBC8B6E6-FDD7-439E-AA59-3A6ECF22A4F4@sillydog.org>
References: <99870ed0-deb6-e9df-dfac-de671104f7f2@sillydog.org>
 <20211019002040.5quarkwtehz3encq@randomstring.org>
 <0C871447-9574-4F97-9104-E739FD0562BC@sillydog.org>
 <c85d819c-941d-c4cb-e2ff-dbcb161d1f3a@sillydog.org>
 <CAEvgogFK=TBK43XpMyjqDMgQfjWHqgdedrbQPc1obWPvLSOezA@mail.gmail.com>
 <65230951-6b72-4024-0de3-b1176b4d25d3@sillydog.org>
 <CAEvgogEHxkuwLn-ZZCkUuaZ7_j9z-VaFWHgzfikvoSou-k5EyQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <05f4c473-d2df-5560-b5e1-8b60a1bb73eb@sillydog.org>
 <CAEvgogGSPk7Cu82zSCeKqKN-UXvFF6MQyWM7=4wu7tTRn8oumg@mail.gmail.com>
 <BBC8B6E6-FDD7-439E-AA59-3A6ECF22A4F4@sillydog.org>
Message-ID: <51648948-54d3-841c-3093-0ead4330eaee@sillydog.org>

On 10/19/21 1:42 PM, Edward wrote:
> It is a dual-core CPU.
>
> I deleted the VM and am reinstalling it. The only changes made, are that the space is now 30GiB vs 25 and the OS selected is 'Generic OS' vs 'Ubuntu 20.10'.
>
> Might work...might not.

I recall a BIOS setting for Virtualization Technology, it was enabled. 
However, Lubuntu continued to run extremely slow in the VM, it was 
taking Firefox five minutes to load in the YouTube home page, before it 
indicated the web page was slowing the browser down and offered to stop 
the loading. Once keys were pressed on the keyboard, for example, typing 
in a URL, it would take between three and five seconds before the typed 
character appeared on-screen.

So, it clearly isn't going to work.


From gaf.linux at gmail.com  Tue Oct 19 15:57:18 2021
From: gaf.linux at gmail.com (Jerry Feldman)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2021 15:57:18 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] Virt-Manager
In-Reply-To: <51648948-54d3-841c-3093-0ead4330eaee@sillydog.org>
References: <99870ed0-deb6-e9df-dfac-de671104f7f2@sillydog.org>
 <20211019002040.5quarkwtehz3encq@randomstring.org>
 <0C871447-9574-4F97-9104-E739FD0562BC@sillydog.org>
 <c85d819c-941d-c4cb-e2ff-dbcb161d1f3a@sillydog.org>
 <CAEvgogFK=TBK43XpMyjqDMgQfjWHqgdedrbQPc1obWPvLSOezA@mail.gmail.com>
 <65230951-6b72-4024-0de3-b1176b4d25d3@sillydog.org>
 <CAEvgogEHxkuwLn-ZZCkUuaZ7_j9z-VaFWHgzfikvoSou-k5EyQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <05f4c473-d2df-5560-b5e1-8b60a1bb73eb@sillydog.org>
 <CAEvgogGSPk7Cu82zSCeKqKN-UXvFF6MQyWM7=4wu7tTRn8oumg@mail.gmail.com>
 <BBC8B6E6-FDD7-439E-AA59-3A6ECF22A4F4@sillydog.org>
 <51648948-54d3-841c-3093-0ead4330eaee@sillydog.org>
Message-ID: <CAEvgogHoqSA4g2pwF1-gzYqYa+a5LgBwXvmV52aKvFBpBD44Cw@mail.gmail.com>

Maybe you should go back to fedora

--
Jerry Feldman <gaf.linux at gmail.com>
Boston Linux and Unix http://www.blu.org
PGP key id: 6F6BB6E7
PGP Key fingerprint: 0EDC 2FF5 53A6 8EED 84D1  3050 5715 B88D 6F6
B B6E7

On Tue, Oct 19, 2021, 3:56 PM Edward <epp at sillydog.org> wrote:

> On 10/19/21 1:42 PM, Edward wrote:
> > It is a dual-core CPU.
> >
> > I deleted the VM and am reinstalling it. The only changes made, are that
> the space is now 30GiB vs 25 and the OS selected is 'Generic OS' vs 'Ubuntu
> 20.10'.
> >
> > Might work...might not.
>
> I recall a BIOS setting for Virtualization Technology, it was enabled.
> However, Lubuntu continued to run extremely slow in the VM, it was
> taking Firefox five minutes to load in the YouTube home page, before it
> indicated the web page was slowing the browser down and offered to stop
> the loading. Once keys were pressed on the keyboard, for example, typing
> in a URL, it would take between three and five seconds before the typed
> character appeared on-screen.
>
> So, it clearly isn't going to work.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss at lists.blu.org
> http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>

From epp at sillydog.org  Tue Oct 19 16:05:47 2021
From: epp at sillydog.org (Edward)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2021 16:05:47 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] Virt-Manager
In-Reply-To: <CAEvgogHoqSA4g2pwF1-gzYqYa+a5LgBwXvmV52aKvFBpBD44Cw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <99870ed0-deb6-e9df-dfac-de671104f7f2@sillydog.org>
 <20211019002040.5quarkwtehz3encq@randomstring.org>
 <0C871447-9574-4F97-9104-E739FD0562BC@sillydog.org>
 <c85d819c-941d-c4cb-e2ff-dbcb161d1f3a@sillydog.org>
 <CAEvgogFK=TBK43XpMyjqDMgQfjWHqgdedrbQPc1obWPvLSOezA@mail.gmail.com>
 <65230951-6b72-4024-0de3-b1176b4d25d3@sillydog.org>
 <CAEvgogEHxkuwLn-ZZCkUuaZ7_j9z-VaFWHgzfikvoSou-k5EyQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <05f4c473-d2df-5560-b5e1-8b60a1bb73eb@sillydog.org>
 <CAEvgogGSPk7Cu82zSCeKqKN-UXvFF6MQyWM7=4wu7tTRn8oumg@mail.gmail.com>
 <BBC8B6E6-FDD7-439E-AA59-3A6ECF22A4F4@sillydog.org>
 <51648948-54d3-841c-3093-0ead4330eaee@sillydog.org>
 <CAEvgogHoqSA4g2pwF1-gzYqYa+a5LgBwXvmV52aKvFBpBD44Cw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <98964de8-7fd3-4892-b8c2-ac8fdbd5036a@sillydog.org>

On 10/19/21 3:57 PM, Jerry Feldman wrote:
> Maybe you should go back to fedora


I feel it's too much of a hassle switching distros. I have to make a 
.tar of everything in the home directory, then burn it to a CD, then 
copy the .tar back to the new distro after it's installed. When I did 
this before switching from Fedora to Debian, the initial attempt had 
trouble packaging PDF files as part of the.tar package.

Why did I switch? It took both desktops a good two minutes each to boot 
into Fedora from GRUB. It takes Debian less than one minute.



From gaf.linux at gmail.com  Tue Oct 19 20:33:09 2021
From: gaf.linux at gmail.com (Jerry Feldman)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2021 20:33:09 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] Boston Linux VIRTUAL Meeting Tomorrow, Wednesday,
 October 20,
 2021 - Hardware Hacking 101: Rogue Keyboards and Eavesdropping Cables
Message-ID: <7786deaf-f820-8aa4-d021-87e8128b807a@gmail.com>

When:October 20, 2021 7:00PM EDT (6:30PM for Q&A)
Topic: Hardware Hacking 101: Rogue Keyboards and Eavesdropping Cables
Moderator: Federico Lucifredi

Location: Online: https://meet.jit.si/blu.org

Live stream: https://youtu.be/gHTlWhyECpU

Summary:

Federico's new hardware talk

Abstract:

More details will be added later

Bio

Federico Lucifredi is The Ceph Storage Product Management Director at 
Red Hat, formerly the Ubuntu Server PM at Canonical, and the Linux 
?Systems Management Czar? at SUSE.


For further information and directions please consult the BLU Web site:
http://www.blu.org

--
Jerry Feldman <gaf.linux at gmail.com <mailto:gaf.linux at gmail.com>>
Boston Linux and Unix http://www.blu.org
PGP key id: 6F6BB6E7
PGP Key fingerprint: 0EDC 2FF5 53A6 8EED 84D1? 3050 5715 B88D 6F6
B B6E7










_______________________________________________
Announce mailing list
Announce at lists.blu.org
http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/announce

From markw at mohawksoft.com  Wed Oct 20 15:00:07 2021
From: markw at mohawksoft.com (markw at mohawksoft.com)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2021 15:00:07 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] Virt-Manager
In-Reply-To: <c85d819c-941d-c4cb-e2ff-dbcb161d1f3a@sillydog.org>
References: <99870ed0-deb6-e9df-dfac-de671104f7f2@sillydog.org>
 <20211019002040.5quarkwtehz3encq@randomstring.org>
 <0C871447-9574-4F97-9104-E739FD0562BC@sillydog.org>
 <c85d819c-941d-c4cb-e2ff-dbcb161d1f3a@sillydog.org>
Message-ID: <14e4df7e5d376de10b408f20d493a608.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>

I use KVM all the time and manage it with virt-manager.

(1) Make sure that network and disk use VirtIO para-virtual driver, do not
emulate physical devices.

(2) Don't use qcow2, its really slow. Pre-allocate your boot drive:

touch myboot.raw
truncate -s SIZE myboot.raw

The above will let you define a large thin-provisioned disk.

If you have LVM or ZFS you can create a logical volume or zvol, but I
think the thin provisioned "sparse" file may be faster because of the
double caching.

> On 10/18/21 9:20 PM, Edward wrote:
>> I missed a setting, found it afterwards, it defaults to Virtual Network
>> (NAT) and the box to start it automatically was initially not checked.
>>
>> It's working now.
>>
>
> And it (take your pick):
>
>   * is slow as molasses
>   * runs at a snail's pace
>
>
> Not even worth using. Gnome Boxes on Fedora 33 ran far better and faster
> than Virt Manager does on Debian.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss at lists.blu.org
> http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>



From epp at sillydog.org  Wed Oct 20 15:15:53 2021
From: epp at sillydog.org (Edward)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2021 15:15:53 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] Virt-Manager
In-Reply-To: <14e4df7e5d376de10b408f20d493a608.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
References: <99870ed0-deb6-e9df-dfac-de671104f7f2@sillydog.org>
 <20211019002040.5quarkwtehz3encq@randomstring.org>
 <0C871447-9574-4F97-9104-E739FD0562BC@sillydog.org>
 <c85d819c-941d-c4cb-e2ff-dbcb161d1f3a@sillydog.org>
 <14e4df7e5d376de10b408f20d493a608.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
Message-ID: <98a80eb6-0c1d-25de-3c62-e60a83e39b1f@sillydog.org>

Virt-manager created it as a .qcrow2 by default, did not know what that 
was. There was also an indication that 'the KVM package' was not 
installed and as a result, it would run slowly. I would have expected 
the installation of virt-manager to also pull in all required 
dependencies. Debian does not provide a package named 'kvm' and 
searching using that string under Description & Name with Synaptic, 
found no such packages that looked like it would install KVM.

I believe the file system it is using, is ext4.


On 10/20/21 3:00 PM, markw at mohawksoft.com wrote:
> I use KVM all the time and manage it with virt-manager.
>
> (1) Make sure that network and disk use VirtIO para-virtual driver, do not
> emulate physical devices.
>
> (2) Don't use qcow2, its really slow. Pre-allocate your boot drive:
>
> touch myboot.raw
> truncate -s SIZE myboot.raw
>
> The above will let you define a large thin-provisioned disk.
>
> If you have LVM or ZFS you can create a logical volume or zvol, but I
> think the thin provisioned "sparse" file may be faster because of the
> double caching.
>
>> On 10/18/21 9:20 PM, Edward wrote:
>>> I missed a setting, found it afterwards, it defaults to Virtual Network
>>> (NAT) and the box to start it automatically was initially not checked.
>>>
>>> It's working now.
>>>
>> And it (take your pick):
>>
>>    * is slow as molasses
>>    * runs at a snail's pace
>>
>>
>> Not even worth using. Gnome Boxes on Fedora 33 ran far better and faster
>> than Virt Manager does on Debian.


From gaf.linux at gmail.com  Wed Oct 20 15:44:08 2021
From: gaf.linux at gmail.com (Jerry Feldman)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2021 15:44:08 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] USB Wifi adapter
In-Reply-To: <CAEvgogFbUmOdKjesM7KfF71kgz1dQUpQT-YDDxvU0kd2uWe1wg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEvgogGjV4389BXi3KZDbVi1=WX6iCqg=joa+65YoioYUc8TSA@mail.gmail.com>
 <61379703.1c69fb81.3ef6d.3999@mx.google.com>
 <CAEvgogFXPfT1Q9XyxPMODwOk235BpFadvGejOXJnyaKVOdy5mQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEvgogFbUmOdKjesM7KfF71kgz1dQUpQT-YDDxvU0kd2uWe1wg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEvgogH49CYWfD3AK+9yMz45bD+QB5kHgYmOHocQvufkL_KAmg@mail.gmail.com>

It worked for a month (40 days). Unfortunately it is outside of Amazon's
return policy. I have an old 2.4G tp-link I can use.
I have placed it in a couple of different USB slots, I have also plugged it
in without the stand. (note the stand is just a USB cable). After a bit of
playing I have it back on. After some playing around I have it working
again. We'll see if it lasts through tonight's blu meeting.


On Thu, Sep 9, 2021 at 2:12 PM Jerry Feldman <gaf.linux at gmail.com> wrote:

> Taking Rich's experience I bought a Panda PAU09. Plugged it in and was
> recognized immediately. I was then able to lock it in to 5GHz.
>
> --
> Jerry Feldman <gaf.linux at gmail.com>
> Boston Linux and Unix http://www.blu.org
> PGP key id: 6F6BB6E7
> PGP Key fingerprint: 0EDC 2FF5 53A6 8EED 84D1  3050 5715 B88D 6F6
> B B6E7
>
> On Tue, Sep 7, 2021, 12:50 PM Jerry Feldman <gaf.linux at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Thanks Rich.
>>
>> --
>> Jerry Feldman <gaf.linux at gmail.com>
>> Boston Linux and Unix http://www.blu.org
>> PGP key id: 6F6BB6E7
>> PGP Key fingerprint: 0EDC 2FF5 53A6 8EED 84D1  3050 5715 B88D 6F6
>> B B6E7
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 7, 2021, 12:46 PM Rich Pieri <richard.pieri at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 7 Sep 2021 10:38:21 -0400
>>> Jerry Feldman <gaf.linux at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> > I have an elderly usb wifi adapter that works fine but it is on the
>>> > slow side and only 2.4GHz. I tried a netgear AC1200, but I was not
>>> > able to get the drivers loaded on fedora and not really worth the
>>> > effort. Since I only have wifi in this house, I would prefer a better
>>> > wifi adapter. Any recommendations.
>>>
>>> None of the thumb-drive type USB adapters have 5GHz worth bothering
>>> with (if at all). If you really need 5GHz then you will need something
>>> like the Panda PAU09. But if you just need a reliable 802.11n dongle
>>> then the Panda PAU05 is good.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Rich Pieri
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Discuss mailing list
>>> Discuss at lists.blu.org
>>> http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>>>
>>

-- 
--
Jerry Feldman <gaf.linux at gmail.com>
Boston Linux and Unix
PGP key id: 6F6BB6E7
Key fingerprint: 0EDC 2FF5 53A6 8EED 84D1  3050 5715 B88D 6F6B B6E7

From gaf.linux at gmail.com  Wed Oct 20 15:47:38 2021
From: gaf.linux at gmail.com (Jerry Feldman)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2021 15:47:38 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] Virt-Manager
In-Reply-To: <98a80eb6-0c1d-25de-3c62-e60a83e39b1f@sillydog.org>
References: <99870ed0-deb6-e9df-dfac-de671104f7f2@sillydog.org>
 <20211019002040.5quarkwtehz3encq@randomstring.org>
 <0C871447-9574-4F97-9104-E739FD0562BC@sillydog.org>
 <c85d819c-941d-c4cb-e2ff-dbcb161d1f3a@sillydog.org>
 <14e4df7e5d376de10b408f20d493a608.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
 <98a80eb6-0c1d-25de-3c62-e60a83e39b1f@sillydog.org>
Message-ID: <CAEvgogH5NgTf4EGY2eKxKfx9Ox+znUmOaUr+94yHEyk7kUb0tQ@mail.gmail.com>

KVM should be installed by default, as it is part of the kernel.  Take a
look at qemu. I'm wondering if you are running under emulation.

On Wed, Oct 20, 2021 at 3:17 PM Edward <epp at sillydog.org> wrote:

> Virt-manager created it as a .qcrow2 by default, did not know what that
> was. There was also an indication that 'the KVM package' was not
> installed and as a result, it would run slowly. I would have expected
> the installation of virt-manager to also pull in all required
> dependencies. Debian does not provide a package named 'kvm' and
> searching using that string under Description & Name with Synaptic,
> found no such packages that looked like it would install KVM.
>
> I believe the file system it is using, is ext4.
>
>
> On 10/20/21 3:00 PM, markw at mohawksoft.com wrote:
> > I use KVM all the time and manage it with virt-manager.
> >
> > (1) Make sure that network and disk use VirtIO para-virtual driver, do
> not
> > emulate physical devices.
> >
> > (2) Don't use qcow2, its really slow. Pre-allocate your boot drive:
> >
> > touch myboot.raw
> > truncate -s SIZE myboot.raw
> >
> > The above will let you define a large thin-provisioned disk.
> >
> > If you have LVM or ZFS you can create a logical volume or zvol, but I
> > think the thin provisioned "sparse" file may be faster because of the
> > double caching.
> >
> >> On 10/18/21 9:20 PM, Edward wrote:
> >>> I missed a setting, found it afterwards, it defaults to Virtual Network
> >>> (NAT) and the box to start it automatically was initially not checked.
> >>>
> >>> It's working now.
> >>>
> >> And it (take your pick):
> >>
> >>    * is slow as molasses
> >>    * runs at a snail's pace
> >>
> >>
> >> Not even worth using. Gnome Boxes on Fedora 33 ran far better and faster
> >> than Virt Manager does on Debian.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss at lists.blu.org
> http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>


-- 
--
Jerry Feldman <gaf.linux at gmail.com>
Boston Linux and Unix
PGP key id: 6F6BB6E7
Key fingerprint: 0EDC 2FF5 53A6 8EED 84D1  3050 5715 B88D 6F6B B6E7

From markw at mohawksoft.com  Wed Oct 20 16:25:51 2021
From: markw at mohawksoft.com (markw at mohawksoft.com)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2021 16:25:51 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] Virt-Manager
In-Reply-To: <98a80eb6-0c1d-25de-3c62-e60a83e39b1f@sillydog.org>
References: <99870ed0-deb6-e9df-dfac-de671104f7f2@sillydog.org>
 <20211019002040.5quarkwtehz3encq@randomstring.org>
 <0C871447-9574-4F97-9104-E739FD0562BC@sillydog.org>
 <c85d819c-941d-c4cb-e2ff-dbcb161d1f3a@sillydog.org>
 <14e4df7e5d376de10b408f20d493a608.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
 <98a80eb6-0c1d-25de-3c62-e60a83e39b1f@sillydog.org>
Message-ID: <df07ba92bf322d07c91da914811a76d2.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>

Let me back up.

QEMU is the actual emulation software. KVM is a management layer on top of
that. lib-virt AFAIK work on top of KVM. The virt-manager package sits on
top of that.

Couple things. "Paravirtualization" is what you really want. You want
x86[_64] code running on x86[_86] hardware. QEMU will use the
virtualization and isolation features of the kernel to run the software
"as is" and trap privileged instructions. You can get "near native" speed.

You also want to use the VirtIO drivers from within the VM

[16:08:36] dut:~ # lspci | grep -i virtio
00:03.0 Ethernet controller: Red Hat, Inc. Virtio network device
00:06.0 Communication controller: Red Hat, Inc. Virtio console
00:07.0 SCSI storage controller: Red Hat, Inc. Virtio block device
00:08.0 Unclassified device [00ff]: Red Hat, Inc. Virtio memory balloon
00:0b.0 SCSI storage controller: Red Hat, Inc. Virtio block device
00:0c.0 SCSI storage controller: Red Hat, Inc. Virtio block device
00:0d.0 SCSI storage controller: Red Hat, Inc. Virtio block device

[16:18:04] dut:~ # grep Hypervisor /var/log/dmesg
[    0.000000] Hypervisor detected: KVM

[16:20:12] dut:~ # dmidecode -s system-manufacturer
QEMU
[16:20:27] dut:~ # dmidecode -s system-product-name
Standard PC (i440FX + PIIX, 1996)

This means that I am not emulating a controller. I/O to the network or
disk directly interfaces to the hypervisor's system without emulating
something stupid like emulex, intel, or etc.

The qcow2 is a copy-on-write (cow) format. Every write to the qcow2 file
is multiplied. If you use a raw file, you lose some of the flexibility of
the qcow2 format, but speed is improved.

You can shut down the VM and use "qemu-image convert" to go from qcow2 to
raw.

You can edit the vm definition using virt-manager, edit the disk, and
click the xml tab, change "type" from "qcow2" to "raw" and update the file
name.

> Virt-manager created it as a .qcrow2 by default, did not know what that
> was. There was also an indication that 'the KVM package' was not
> installed and as a result, it would run slowly. I would have expected
> the installation of virt-manager to also pull in all required
> dependencies. Debian does not provide a package named 'kvm' and
> searching using that string under Description & Name with Synaptic,
> found no such packages that looked like it would install KVM.
>
> I believe the file system it is using, is ext4.
>
>
> On 10/20/21 3:00 PM, markw at mohawksoft.com wrote:
>> I use KVM all the time and manage it with virt-manager.
>>
>> (1) Make sure that network and disk use VirtIO para-virtual driver, do
>> not
>> emulate physical devices.
>>
>> (2) Don't use qcow2, its really slow. Pre-allocate your boot drive:
>>
>> touch myboot.raw
>> truncate -s SIZE myboot.raw
>>
>> The above will let you define a large thin-provisioned disk.
>>
>> If you have LVM or ZFS you can create a logical volume or zvol, but I
>> think the thin provisioned "sparse" file may be faster because of the
>> double caching.
>>
>>> On 10/18/21 9:20 PM, Edward wrote:
>>>> I missed a setting, found it afterwards, it defaults to Virtual
>>>> Network
>>>> (NAT) and the box to start it automatically was initially not checked.
>>>>
>>>> It's working now.
>>>>
>>> And it (take your pick):
>>>
>>>    * is slow as molasses
>>>    * runs at a snail's pace
>>>
>>>
>>> Not even worth using. Gnome Boxes on Fedora 33 ran far better and
>>> faster
>>> than Virt Manager does on Debian.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss at lists.blu.org
> http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>



From gaf.linux at gmail.com  Wed Oct 20 16:59:09 2021
From: gaf.linux at gmail.com (Jerry Feldman)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2021 16:59:09 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] USB Wifi adapter
In-Reply-To: <87tuhbo1xs.fsf@fsf.org>
References: <CAEvgogGjV4389BXi3KZDbVi1=WX6iCqg=joa+65YoioYUc8TSA@mail.gmail.com>
 <61379703.1c69fb81.3ef6d.3999@mx.google.com>
 <CAEvgogFXPfT1Q9XyxPMODwOk235BpFadvGejOXJnyaKVOdy5mQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEvgogFbUmOdKjesM7KfF71kgz1dQUpQT-YDDxvU0kd2uWe1wg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEvgogH49CYWfD3AK+9yMz45bD+QB5kHgYmOHocQvufkL_KAmg@mail.gmail.com>
 <87tuhbo1xs.fsf@fsf.org>
Message-ID: <CAEvgogGytbsTdkW+rbk6wXHpRwCQa9po2AxsGgaJxPeyWip3iQ@mail.gmail.com>

Unfortunately it is only 2.4GHz. I would prefer a 5GHz since I do several
online meetings. The old tp-link still works fine. But, a PCIe wifi might
work. I'll check my motherboard specs.

--
Jerry Feldman <gaf.linux at gmail.com>
Boston Linux and Unix http://www.blu.org
PGP key id: 6F6BB6E7
PGP Key fingerprint: 0EDC 2FF5 53A6 8EED 84D1  3050 5715 B88D 6F6
B B6E7

On Wed, Oct 20, 2021, 4:50 PM Ian Kelling <iank at fsf.org> wrote:

> https://www.thinkpenguin.com/catalog/wireless-networking-gnulinux they
> have just one wireless usb at the moment,
>
> https://www.thinkpenguin.com/gnu-linux/penguin-wireless-n-usb-adapter-gnu-linux-tpe-n150usb
> it may be a bit more expensive, but it's RYF certified, they have great
> customer service, its a small business, all of which are worth something
> to me.
>
> --
> Ian Kelling | Senior Systems Administrator, Free Software Foundation
> GPG Key: B125 F60B 7B28 7FF6 A2B7  DF8F 170A F0E2 9542 95DF
> https://fsf.org | https://gnu.org
>

From epp at sillydog.org  Wed Oct 20 17:08:37 2021
From: epp at sillydog.org (Edward)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2021 17:08:37 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] Virt-Manager
In-Reply-To: <df07ba92bf322d07c91da914811a76d2.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
References: <99870ed0-deb6-e9df-dfac-de671104f7f2@sillydog.org>
 <20211019002040.5quarkwtehz3encq@randomstring.org>
 <0C871447-9574-4F97-9104-E739FD0562BC@sillydog.org>
 <c85d819c-941d-c4cb-e2ff-dbcb161d1f3a@sillydog.org>
 <14e4df7e5d376de10b408f20d493a608.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
 <98a80eb6-0c1d-25de-3c62-e60a83e39b1f@sillydog.org>
 <df07ba92bf322d07c91da914811a76d2.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
Message-ID: <43679e86-fad1-c983-2684-881bf48c1aa6@sillydog.org>

When I try to do this again, this is the text in the virt-manager GUI 
that comes up as soon as I select the icon to create a new virtual machine:

"Warning: KVM is not available. This may mean the KVM package is not 
installed, or the KVM kernel modules are not loaded. Your virtual 
machine may perform poorly."

FWIW, when I did this for the second time last night, it took an hour 
and a half just to install the image (since deleted).

Don't know if the info below will help:

Just now, running ->???? ~$ lspci | grep -i virtio? had no results

/var/log/dmesg no such file or directory

$ sudo dmidecode -s system-manufacturer
Hewlett-Packard

$ sudo dmidecode -s system-product-name
CQ5826


On 10/20/21 4:25 PM, markw at mohawksoft.com wrote:
> Let me back up.
>
> QEMU is the actual emulation software. KVM is a management layer on top of
> that. lib-virt AFAIK work on top of KVM. The virt-manager package sits on
> top of that.
>
> Couple things. "Paravirtualization" is what you really want. You want
> x86[_64] code running on x86[_86] hardware. QEMU will use the
> virtualization and isolation features of the kernel to run the software
> "as is" and trap privileged instructions. You can get "near native" speed.
>
> You also want to use the VirtIO drivers from within the VM
>
> [16:08:36] dut:~ # lspci | grep -i virtio
> 00:03.0 Ethernet controller: Red Hat, Inc. Virtio network device
> 00:06.0 Communication controller: Red Hat, Inc. Virtio console
> 00:07.0 SCSI storage controller: Red Hat, Inc. Virtio block device
> 00:08.0 Unclassified device [00ff]: Red Hat, Inc. Virtio memory balloon
> 00:0b.0 SCSI storage controller: Red Hat, Inc. Virtio block device
> 00:0c.0 SCSI storage controller: Red Hat, Inc. Virtio block device
> 00:0d.0 SCSI storage controller: Red Hat, Inc. Virtio block device
>
> [16:18:04] dut:~ # grep Hypervisor /var/log/dmesg
> [    0.000000] Hypervisor detected: KVM
>
> [16:20:12] dut:~ # dmidecode -s system-manufacturer
> QEMU
> [16:20:27] dut:~ # dmidecode -s system-product-name
> Standard PC (i440FX + PIIX, 1996)
>
> This means that I am not emulating a controller. I/O to the network or
> disk directly interfaces to the hypervisor's system without emulating
> something stupid like emulex, intel, or etc.
>
> The qcow2 is a copy-on-write (cow) format. Every write to the qcow2 file
> is multiplied. If you use a raw file, you lose some of the flexibility of
> the qcow2 format, but speed is improved.
>
> You can shut down the VM and use "qemu-image convert" to go from qcow2 to
> raw.
>
> You can edit the vm definition using virt-manager, edit the disk, and
> click the xml tab, change "type" from "qcow2" to "raw" and update the file
> name.
>
>> Virt-manager created it as a .qcrow2 by default, did not know what that
>> was. There was also an indication that 'the KVM package' was not
>> installed and as a result, it would run slowly. I would have expected
>> the installation of virt-manager to also pull in all required
>> dependencies. Debian does not provide a package named 'kvm' and
>> searching using that string under Description & Name with Synaptic,
>> found no such packages that looked like it would install KVM.
>>
>> I believe the file system it is using, is ext4.
>>
>>
>> On 10/20/21 3:00 PM, markw at mohawksoft.com wrote:
>>> I use KVM all the time and manage it with virt-manager.
>>>
>>> (1) Make sure that network and disk use VirtIO para-virtual driver, do
>>> not
>>> emulate physical devices.
>>>
>>> (2) Don't use qcow2, its really slow. Pre-allocate your boot drive:
>>>
>>> touch myboot.raw
>>> truncate -s SIZE myboot.raw
>>>
>>> The above will let you define a large thin-provisioned disk.
>>>
>>> If you have LVM or ZFS you can create a logical volume or zvol, but I
>>> think the thin provisioned "sparse" file may be faster because of the
>>> double caching.
>>>
>>>> On 10/18/21 9:20 PM, Edward wrote:
>>>>> I missed a setting, found it afterwards, it defaults to Virtual
>>>>> Network
>>>>> (NAT) and the box to start it automatically was initially not checked.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's working now.
>>>>>
>>>> And it (take your pick):
>>>>
>>>>     * is slow as molasses
>>>>     * runs at a snail's pace
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Not even worth using. Gnome Boxes on Fedora 33 ran far better and
>>>> faster
>>>> than Virt Manager does on Debian.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Discuss mailing list
>> Discuss at lists.blu.org
>> http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>>
>


From markw at mohawksoft.com  Wed Oct 20 17:35:55 2021
From: markw at mohawksoft.com (markw at mohawksoft.com)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2021 17:35:55 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] Virt-Manager
In-Reply-To: <43679e86-fad1-c983-2684-881bf48c1aa6@sillydog.org>
References: <99870ed0-deb6-e9df-dfac-de671104f7f2@sillydog.org>
 <20211019002040.5quarkwtehz3encq@randomstring.org>
 <0C871447-9574-4F97-9104-E739FD0562BC@sillydog.org>
 <c85d819c-941d-c4cb-e2ff-dbcb161d1f3a@sillydog.org>
 <14e4df7e5d376de10b408f20d493a608.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
 <98a80eb6-0c1d-25de-3c62-e60a83e39b1f@sillydog.org>
 <df07ba92bf322d07c91da914811a76d2.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
 <43679e86-fad1-c983-2684-881bf48c1aa6@sillydog.org>
Message-ID: <bc9fc9310eeea39e253e2e34a0c6ea1f.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>

Try installing qemu packages



markw at snoopy:~$ apt list --installed  | grep -i kvm

WARNING: apt does not have a stable CLI interface. Use with caution in
scripts.

qemu-kvm/focal-security,now 1:4.2-3ubuntu6.17 amd64 [installed,upgradable
to: 1:4.2-3ubuntu6.18]
markw at snoopy:~$ apt list --installed  | grep -i qemu

WARNING: apt does not have a stable CLI interface. Use with caution in
scripts.

aqemu/focal,now 0.9.2-2.3build1 amd64 [installed]
ipxe-qemu-256k-compat-efi-roms/focal,focal,now
1.0.0+git-20150424.a25a16d-0ubuntu4 all [installed,automatic]
ipxe-qemu/focal-updates,focal-updates,now
1.0.0+git-20190109.133f4c4-0ubuntu3.2 all [installed,automatic]
libvirt-daemon-driver-qemu/focal-updates,now 6.0.0-0ubuntu8.14 amd64
[installed,automatic]
qemu-block-extra/focal-security,now 1:4.2-3ubuntu6.17 amd64
[installed,upgradable to: 1:4.2-3ubuntu6.18]
qemu-efi-aarch64/focal-updates,focal-updates,focal-security,focal-security,now
0~20191122.bd85bf54-2ubuntu3.3 all [installed]
qemu-efi-arm/focal-updates,focal-updates,focal-security,focal-security,now
0~20191122.bd85bf54-2ubuntu3.3 all [installed]
qemu-kvm/focal-security,now 1:4.2-3ubuntu6.17 amd64 [installed,upgradable
to: 1:4.2-3ubuntu6.18]
qemu-system-arm/focal-security,now 1:4.2-3ubuntu6.17 amd64
[installed,upgradable to: 1:4.2-3ubuntu6.18]
qemu-system-common/focal-security,now 1:4.2-3ubuntu6.17 amd64
[installed,upgradable to: 1:4.2-3ubuntu6.18]
qemu-system-data/focal-security,focal-security,now 1:4.2-3ubuntu6.17 all
[installed,upgradable to: 1:4.2-3ubuntu6.18]
qemu-system-gui/focal-security,now 1:4.2-3ubuntu6.17 amd64
[installed,upgradable to: 1:4.2-3ubuntu6.18]
qemu-system-x86/focal-security,now 1:4.2-3ubuntu6.17 amd64
[installed,upgradable to: 1:4.2-3ubuntu6.18]
qemu-utils/focal-security,now 1:4.2-3ubuntu6.17 amd64
[installed,upgradable to: 1:4.2-3ubuntu6.18]
qemu/focal-security,now 1:4.2-3ubuntu6.17 amd64 [installed,upgradable to:
1:4.2-3ubuntu6.18]


> When I try to do this again, this is the text in the virt-manager GUI
> that comes up as soon as I select the icon to create a new virtual
> machine:
>
> "Warning: KVM is not available. This may mean the KVM package is not
> installed, or the KVM kernel modules are not loaded. Your virtual
> machine may perform poorly."
>
> FWIW, when I did this for the second time last night, it took an hour
> and a half just to install the image (since deleted).
>
> Don't know if the info below will help:
>
> Just now, running ->???????? ~$ lspci | grep -i virtio?? had no results
>
> /var/log/dmesg no such file or directory
>
> $ sudo dmidecode -s system-manufacturer
> Hewlett-Packard
>
> $ sudo dmidecode -s system-product-name
> CQ5826
>
>
> On 10/20/21 4:25 PM, markw at mohawksoft.com wrote:
>> Let me back up.
>>
>> QEMU is the actual emulation software. KVM is a management layer on top
>> of
>> that. lib-virt AFAIK work on top of KVM. The virt-manager package sits
>> on
>> top of that.
>>
>> Couple things. "Paravirtualization" is what you really want. You want
>> x86[_64] code running on x86[_86] hardware. QEMU will use the
>> virtualization and isolation features of the kernel to run the software
>> "as is" and trap privileged instructions. You can get "near native"
>> speed.
>>
>> You also want to use the VirtIO drivers from within the VM
>>
>> [16:08:36] dut:~ # lspci | grep -i virtio
>> 00:03.0 Ethernet controller: Red Hat, Inc. Virtio network device
>> 00:06.0 Communication controller: Red Hat, Inc. Virtio console
>> 00:07.0 SCSI storage controller: Red Hat, Inc. Virtio block device
>> 00:08.0 Unclassified device [00ff]: Red Hat, Inc. Virtio memory balloon
>> 00:0b.0 SCSI storage controller: Red Hat, Inc. Virtio block device
>> 00:0c.0 SCSI storage controller: Red Hat, Inc. Virtio block device
>> 00:0d.0 SCSI storage controller: Red Hat, Inc. Virtio block device
>>
>> [16:18:04] dut:~ # grep Hypervisor /var/log/dmesg
>> [    0.000000] Hypervisor detected: KVM
>>
>> [16:20:12] dut:~ # dmidecode -s system-manufacturer
>> QEMU
>> [16:20:27] dut:~ # dmidecode -s system-product-name
>> Standard PC (i440FX + PIIX, 1996)
>>
>> This means that I am not emulating a controller. I/O to the network or
>> disk directly interfaces to the hypervisor's system without emulating
>> something stupid like emulex, intel, or etc.
>>
>> The qcow2 is a copy-on-write (cow) format. Every write to the qcow2 file
>> is multiplied. If you use a raw file, you lose some of the flexibility
>> of
>> the qcow2 format, but speed is improved.
>>
>> You can shut down the VM and use "qemu-image convert" to go from qcow2
>> to
>> raw.
>>
>> You can edit the vm definition using virt-manager, edit the disk, and
>> click the xml tab, change "type" from "qcow2" to "raw" and update the
>> file
>> name.
>>
>>> Virt-manager created it as a .qcrow2 by default, did not know what that
>>> was. There was also an indication that 'the KVM package' was not
>>> installed and as a result, it would run slowly. I would have expected
>>> the installation of virt-manager to also pull in all required
>>> dependencies. Debian does not provide a package named 'kvm' and
>>> searching using that string under Description & Name with Synaptic,
>>> found no such packages that looked like it would install KVM.
>>>
>>> I believe the file system it is using, is ext4.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 10/20/21 3:00 PM, markw at mohawksoft.com wrote:
>>>> I use KVM all the time and manage it with virt-manager.
>>>>
>>>> (1) Make sure that network and disk use VirtIO para-virtual driver, do
>>>> not
>>>> emulate physical devices.
>>>>
>>>> (2) Don't use qcow2, its really slow. Pre-allocate your boot drive:
>>>>
>>>> touch myboot.raw
>>>> truncate -s SIZE myboot.raw
>>>>
>>>> The above will let you define a large thin-provisioned disk.
>>>>
>>>> If you have LVM or ZFS you can create a logical volume or zvol, but I
>>>> think the thin provisioned "sparse" file may be faster because of the
>>>> double caching.
>>>>
>>>>> On 10/18/21 9:20 PM, Edward wrote:
>>>>>> I missed a setting, found it afterwards, it defaults to Virtual
>>>>>> Network
>>>>>> (NAT) and the box to start it automatically was initially not
>>>>>> checked.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's working now.
>>>>>>
>>>>> And it (take your pick):
>>>>>
>>>>>     * is slow as molasses
>>>>>     * runs at a snail's pace
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Not even worth using. Gnome Boxes on Fedora 33 ran far better and
>>>>> faster
>>>>> than Virt Manager does on Debian.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Discuss mailing list
>>> Discuss at lists.blu.org
>>> http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss at lists.blu.org
> http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>



From epp at sillydog.org  Wed Oct 20 18:42:38 2021
From: epp at sillydog.org (Edward)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2021 18:42:38 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] Virt-Manager
In-Reply-To: <bc9fc9310eeea39e253e2e34a0c6ea1f.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
References: <99870ed0-deb6-e9df-dfac-de671104f7f2@sillydog.org>
 <20211019002040.5quarkwtehz3encq@randomstring.org>
 <0C871447-9574-4F97-9104-E739FD0562BC@sillydog.org>
 <c85d819c-941d-c4cb-e2ff-dbcb161d1f3a@sillydog.org>
 <14e4df7e5d376de10b408f20d493a608.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
 <98a80eb6-0c1d-25de-3c62-e60a83e39b1f@sillydog.org>
 <df07ba92bf322d07c91da914811a76d2.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
 <43679e86-fad1-c983-2684-881bf48c1aa6@sillydog.org>
 <bc9fc9310eeea39e253e2e34a0c6ea1f.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
Message-ID: <c887be32-1af5-60c3-5487-386c123df2ea@sillydog.org>

Thanks. In Debian. that would be qemu-system-x86, so I installed that 
with (again) virt-manager and the image is now running at almost 
real-time. Not sure what else q-s-x86 added, but it looks like it might 
work now.

Upon launching virt-manager to create the vm after the q-s-x86 package, 
the message re KVM not installed did not appear.


On 10/20/21 5:35 PM, markw at mohawksoft.com wrote:
> Try installing qemu packages
>


From markw at mohawksoft.com  Wed Oct 20 19:24:33 2021
From: markw at mohawksoft.com (markw at mohawksoft.com)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2021 19:24:33 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] Virt-Manager
In-Reply-To: <c887be32-1af5-60c3-5487-386c123df2ea@sillydog.org>
References: <99870ed0-deb6-e9df-dfac-de671104f7f2@sillydog.org>
 <20211019002040.5quarkwtehz3encq@randomstring.org>
 <0C871447-9574-4F97-9104-E739FD0562BC@sillydog.org>
 <c85d819c-941d-c4cb-e2ff-dbcb161d1f3a@sillydog.org>
 <14e4df7e5d376de10b408f20d493a608.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
 <98a80eb6-0c1d-25de-3c62-e60a83e39b1f@sillydog.org>
 <df07ba92bf322d07c91da914811a76d2.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
 <43679e86-fad1-c983-2684-881bf48c1aa6@sillydog.org>
 <bc9fc9310eeea39e253e2e34a0c6ea1f.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
 <c887be32-1af5-60c3-5487-386c123df2ea@sillydog.org>
Message-ID: <d20815fb45282d9b89f6454cb059f25a.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>

Try this:
sudo apt-get install qemu-kvm


> Thanks. In Debian. that would be qemu-system-x86, so I installed that
> with (again) virt-manager and the image is now running at almost
> real-time. Not sure what else q-s-x86 added, but it looks like it might
> work now.
>
> Upon launching virt-manager to create the vm after the q-s-x86 package,
> the message re KVM not installed did not appear.
>
>
> On 10/20/21 5:35 PM, markw at mohawksoft.com wrote:
>> Try installing qemu packages
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss at lists.blu.org
> http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>



From epp at sillydog.org  Wed Oct 20 21:49:39 2021
From: epp at sillydog.org (Edward)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2021 21:49:39 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] Virt-Manager
In-Reply-To: <d20815fb45282d9b89f6454cb059f25a.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
References: <99870ed0-deb6-e9df-dfac-de671104f7f2@sillydog.org>
 <20211019002040.5quarkwtehz3encq@randomstring.org>
 <0C871447-9574-4F97-9104-E739FD0562BC@sillydog.org>
 <c85d819c-941d-c4cb-e2ff-dbcb161d1f3a@sillydog.org>
 <14e4df7e5d376de10b408f20d493a608.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
 <98a80eb6-0c1d-25de-3c62-e60a83e39b1f@sillydog.org>
 <df07ba92bf322d07c91da914811a76d2.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
 <43679e86-fad1-c983-2684-881bf48c1aa6@sillydog.org>
 <bc9fc9310eeea39e253e2e34a0c6ea1f.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
 <c887be32-1af5-60c3-5487-386c123df2ea@sillydog.org>
 <d20815fb45282d9b89f6454cb059f25a.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
Message-ID: <6a79e7a1-96ac-534b-d452-fbb4869bf1f2@sillydog.org>

There isn't a package named /qemu-kvm/ in Debian. It was missing their 
/qemu-system-x86/ package.

It's now running in real-time, I'm seeing no delay. The image took only 
15 minutes to install this time. Better than an hour and a half.? :-)


On 10/20/21 19:24, markw at mohawksoft.com wrote:
> Try this:
> sudo apt-get install qemu-kvm
>
>
>> Thanks. In Debian. that would be qemu-system-x86, so I installed that
>> with (again) virt-manager and the image is now running at almost
>> real-time. Not sure what else q-s-x86 added, but it looks like it might
>> work now.
>>
>> Upon launching virt-manager to create the vm after the q-s-x86 package,
>> the message re KVM not installed did not appear.
>>
>>
>> On 10/20/21 5:35 PM, markw at mohawksoft.com wrote:
>>> Try installing qemu packages


From markw at mohawksoft.com  Wed Oct 20 22:34:58 2021
From: markw at mohawksoft.com (markw at mohawksoft.com)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2021 22:34:58 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] Virt-Manager
In-Reply-To: <6a79e7a1-96ac-534b-d452-fbb4869bf1f2@sillydog.org>
References: <99870ed0-deb6-e9df-dfac-de671104f7f2@sillydog.org>
 <20211019002040.5quarkwtehz3encq@randomstring.org>
 <0C871447-9574-4F97-9104-E739FD0562BC@sillydog.org>
 <c85d819c-941d-c4cb-e2ff-dbcb161d1f3a@sillydog.org>
 <14e4df7e5d376de10b408f20d493a608.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
 <98a80eb6-0c1d-25de-3c62-e60a83e39b1f@sillydog.org>
 <df07ba92bf322d07c91da914811a76d2.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
 <43679e86-fad1-c983-2684-881bf48c1aa6@sillydog.org>
 <bc9fc9310eeea39e253e2e34a0c6ea1f.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
 <c887be32-1af5-60c3-5487-386c123df2ea@sillydog.org>
 <d20815fb45282d9b89f6454cb059f25a.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
 <6a79e7a1-96ac-534b-d452-fbb4869bf1f2@sillydog.org>
Message-ID: <eb676d957da1368e1c829cd5c5c1ddf8.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>

Ubuntu is based on Debian. It may be version differences, who knows?
Anyway, QEMU can emulate different processors, for instance, it can
emulate the ARM processor for Android development, and, as you've
experienced already, it is quite slow.

The real benefit is using the x86_64 processor's ability to paravirtualize
an environment by allowing native code to run in a protected virtual
memory space where any instruction that exceeds its "protection" creates a
trap to the hypervisor where the hypervisor can then emulate the
instruction.

Most code in this environment runs at native speed. Using the VirtIO stuff
increases performance even better because the hypervisor isn't emulating
physical hardware. There is a driver in your VM that calls into the
hypervisor to do the I/O operation in the hypervisor.

You can even use the emulator to do kernel development. You can use gdb
with the emulator to step through kernel code.

These days, I don't like to pollute my "work station" with all the various
build tools. Its always a PITA to get multiple different environments to
work along side each other. This is no longer an issue. Build for CentOS?
Set up a centos VM. Build for Debian? Set up a Debian VM. Build for
Windows? Set up a Windows VM. Different versions of an OS? Set up multiple
VMs with different version. Need to test upgrade? Create VM of old version
and practice upgrading it.

Lately, I've been using ZFS for VM management. I have a ZRAID system and I
create "zvols" (ZFS equivalent to LVM logical volumes) for each VM. Create
them "sparse" and enable compression. I have even used the "snapshot"
capability to test on VMs, take a snapshot, start up vm, test code that
nukes VM, shut down VM, revert snapshot, start again.

KVM/QEMU has completely changed how I do software development. I almost
*never* run make in my "work station" environment. I am always compiling
in a specific VM.

Anyway, have fun. Virtualization is a little heavier than containers, but
well worth getting to know better.


> There isn't a package named /qemu-kvm/ in Debian. It was missing their
> /qemu-system-x86/ package.
>
> It's now running in real-time, I'm seeing no delay. The image took only
> 15 minutes to install this time. Better than an hour and a half.?? :-)
>
>
> On 10/20/21 19:24, markw at mohawksoft.com wrote:
>> Try this:
>> sudo apt-get install qemu-kvm
>>
>>
>>> Thanks. In Debian. that would be qemu-system-x86, so I installed that
>>> with (again) virt-manager and the image is now running at almost
>>> real-time. Not sure what else q-s-x86 added, but it looks like it might
>>> work now.
>>>
>>> Upon launching virt-manager to create the vm after the q-s-x86 package,
>>> the message re KVM not installed did not appear.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 10/20/21 5:35 PM, markw at mohawksoft.com wrote:
>>>> Try installing qemu packages
>
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss at lists.blu.org
> http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>



From me at mattgillen.net  Thu Oct 21 00:11:12 2021
From: me at mattgillen.net (Matthew Gillen)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2021 00:11:12 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] nfs in virtual machines
Message-ID: <3aa691df-34cc-0240-8ebf-d2f1735a22c0@mattgillen.net>

All this talk of virtual machines reminded me that there might be some 
experts out there that could help with a problem that's been with me for 
a while.

I have a server that is on all the time and serves NFS.  I have a linux 
VM that runs on windows host (virtualbox), and the linux guest mounts 
the home directory from the server (to be clear, the NFS server is not 
the same box as the VM host).

The guest VM is set up for NAT.

The problem is that every 5 or 10 minutes, the machine is just not 
responsive.  'ls' on the home directory will just hang for like a 
minute.  Terminal windows are fine and can execute commands until you 
run a command that does anything with the NFS mount.  Also can't launch 
new terminals at that point because it wants to read your ~/.bashrc

Eventually it will come back and is zippy.

I'm pulling my hair out trying to figure out how to debug this.  It 
feels like a pure NFS problem; the VM host has plenty of memory and 
isn't pausing the VM; the UI in the guest is generally responsive except 
for the windows that are blocked waiting to read/write something from ~

Nothing really useful is in the syslog or journalctl.

Any ideas on where to look or things to try?

Thanks
Matt

From richard.pieri at gmail.com  Thu Oct 21 01:35:46 2021
From: richard.pieri at gmail.com (Rich Pieri)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2021 01:35:46 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] nfs in virtual machines
In-Reply-To: <3aa691df-34cc-0240-8ebf-d2f1735a22c0@mattgillen.net>
References: <3aa691df-34cc-0240-8ebf-d2f1735a22c0@mattgillen.net>
Message-ID: <20211021013546.00003713.Richard.Pieri@gmail.com>

On Thu, 21 Oct 2021 00:11:12 -0400
Matthew Gillen <me at mattgillen.net> wrote:

> The guest VM is set up for NAT.
> Any ideas on where to look or things to try?

Probably NAT making RPC unhappy. Simple solution: don't use NFS.

More complex solution: either get rid of NAT or you tune your firewall
traversal rules and rpcbind configurations to play nice with each
other. Or use Samba instead.

-- 
\m/ (--) \m/

From markw at mohawksoft.com  Thu Oct 21 02:37:56 2021
From: markw at mohawksoft.com (markw at mohawksoft.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2021 02:37:56 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] nfs in virtual machines
In-Reply-To: <3aa691df-34cc-0240-8ebf-d2f1735a22c0@mattgillen.net>
References: <3aa691df-34cc-0240-8ebf-d2f1735a22c0@mattgillen.net>
Message-ID: <e05bb528d5364512987714214e8f04a0.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>

Is the hypervisor under load?

Run sar on both.

> All this talk of virtual machines reminded me that there might be some
> experts out there that could help with a problem that's been with me for
> a while.
>
> I have a server that is on all the time and serves NFS.  I have a linux
> VM that runs on windows host (virtualbox), and the linux guest mounts
> the home directory from the server (to be clear, the NFS server is not
> the same box as the VM host).
>
> The guest VM is set up for NAT.
>
> The problem is that every 5 or 10 minutes, the machine is just not
> responsive.  'ls' on the home directory will just hang for like a
> minute.  Terminal windows are fine and can execute commands until you
> run a command that does anything with the NFS mount.  Also can't launch
> new terminals at that point because it wants to read your ~/.bashrc
>
> Eventually it will come back and is zippy.
>
> I'm pulling my hair out trying to figure out how to debug this.  It
> feels like a pure NFS problem; the VM host has plenty of memory and
> isn't pausing the VM; the UI in the guest is generally responsive except
> for the windows that are blocked waiting to read/write something from ~
>
> Nothing really useful is in the syslog or journalctl.
>
> Any ideas on where to look or things to try?
>
> Thanks
> Matt
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss at lists.blu.org
> http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>



From markw at mohawksoft.com  Thu Oct 21 14:22:19 2021
From: markw at mohawksoft.com (markw at mohawksoft.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2021 14:22:19 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] nfs in virtual machines
In-Reply-To: <20211021013546.00003713.Richard.Pieri@gmail.com>
References: <3aa691df-34cc-0240-8ebf-d2f1735a22c0@mattgillen.net>
 <20211021013546.00003713.Richard.Pieri@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ad84e0d854a46db4c50060169bf7946c.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>

> On Thu, 21 Oct 2021 00:11:12 -0400
> Matthew Gillen <me at mattgillen.net> wrote:
>
>> The guest VM is set up for NAT.
>> Any ideas on where to look or things to try?
>
> Probably NAT making RPC unhappy. Simple solution: don't use NFS.

I have never heard of NAT hurting performance on NFS. I understand all the
networking complexity of connecting machine A to server B through a NAT,
but once connected, I never experienced any other issues.

I'd love a link or something so I can learn. My company has a product that
may, in fact, be configured by a customer like this and I'm concerned that
there is an issue of which we may not be aware.

Thanks.

>
> More complex solution: either get rid of NAT or you tune your firewall
> traversal rules and rpcbind configurations to play nice with each
> other. Or use Samba instead.
>
> --
> \m/ (--) \m/
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss at lists.blu.org
> http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>



From epp at sillydog.org  Thu Oct 21 17:14:46 2021
From: epp at sillydog.org (Edward)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2021 17:14:46 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] Virt-Manager
In-Reply-To: <71672aaf-cef9-67ad-7147-e14b7ba72327@sillydog.org>
References: <99870ed0-deb6-e9df-dfac-de671104f7f2@sillydog.org>
 <20211019002040.5quarkwtehz3encq@randomstring.org>
 <0C871447-9574-4F97-9104-E739FD0562BC@sillydog.org>
 <c85d819c-941d-c4cb-e2ff-dbcb161d1f3a@sillydog.org>
 <14e4df7e5d376de10b408f20d493a608.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
 <98a80eb6-0c1d-25de-3c62-e60a83e39b1f@sillydog.org>
 <df07ba92bf322d07c91da914811a76d2.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
 <43679e86-fad1-c983-2684-881bf48c1aa6@sillydog.org>
 <bc9fc9310eeea39e253e2e34a0c6ea1f.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
 <c887be32-1af5-60c3-5487-386c123df2ea@sillydog.org>
 <d20815fb45282d9b89f6454cb059f25a.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
 <6a79e7a1-96ac-534b-d452-fbb4869bf1f2@sillydog.org>
 <eb676d957da1368e1c829cd5c5c1ddf8.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
 <71672aaf-cef9-67ad-7147-e14b7ba72327@sillydog.org>
Message-ID: <f770f443-7768-7c53-d4b6-272d6592095b@sillydog.org>

Should have gone to the list. Sorry.

On 10/21/21 4:02 PM, Edward wrote:
> On 10/20/21 22:34, markw at mohawksoft.com wrote:
>
>> KVM/QEMU has completely changed how I do software development. I almost
>> *never* run make in my "work station" environment. I am always compiling
>> in a specific VM.
>>
>> Anyway, have fun. Virtualization is a little heavier than containers, but
>> well worth getting to know better.
>
> I was successful installing the LXQt flavors of Lubuntu and PCLinuxOS 
> (PCLOS) into virtual machines and they work well. With PCLOS, the 
> desktop kept repeatedly flashing running it from the live image, so 
> once rebooted but selecting the safe graphics mode at boot, the 
> desktop was then fine and it apparently installed using that same 
> mode, but the desktop resolution is limited to 1600x900. If I select 
> anything wider or larger, it cuts off the bottom of the window. I 
> could move the LXQtPpanel to the top of the screen, but I am used to 
> using it at the bottom.
>
> I question whether the VM software emulates a /virtual/ CPU?? In 
> PCLOS, running neofetch in a terminal, displayed the CPU as an AMD 
> Opteron 23xx (Gen 3 Class Opteron) (2) @ 3.199GHz. The actual on-board 
> CPU is an AMD Athlon II X2 260 (2) @ 3.200GHz.
>
> I also installed Fedora's LXQt Spin, which took the least amount of VM 
> configuring before the installation, however Fedora 34 did not have 
> the latest LXQt packages (had 0.16, latest is 0.17, next version may 
> be version 1.0) and some of the menus were actually missing their 
> icons./If it were me, I would not have released it with missing icons. 
> /So I deleted the Fedora VM, wasn't happy with it.
>



From me at mattgillen.net  Thu Oct 21 21:19:16 2021
From: me at mattgillen.net (Matthew Gillen)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2021 21:19:16 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] nfs in virtual machines
In-Reply-To: <20211021013546.00003713.Richard.Pieri@gmail.com>
References: <3aa691df-34cc-0240-8ebf-d2f1735a22c0@mattgillen.net>
 <20211021013546.00003713.Richard.Pieri@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <061dee0d-af98-cc7f-86e6-56feb68b1f8e@mattgillen.net>

On 10/21/2021 1:35 AM, Rich Pieri wrote:
> On Thu, 21 Oct 2021 00:11:12 -0400
> Matthew Gillen <me at mattgillen.net> wrote:
> 
>> The guest VM is set up for NAT.
>> Any ideas on where to look or things to try?
> 
> Probably NAT making RPC unhappy. Simple solution: don't use NFS.

That would be a fix, but I have a lot more disk space on my server.

> More complex solution: either get rid of NAT or you tune your firewall
> traversal rules and rpcbind configurations to play nice with each
> other. Or use Samba instead.

I suppose I could try bridged networking for that one.  Since the VM 
host is windows, I don't want to hurt my brain by learning how to tune 
the windows firewall.  I was wondering if someone would suggest a fancy 
new network FS, didn't expect samba :-)

Of course as soon as I ask for help it goes a whole night without doing 
it once...  Gotta love heisen-bugs.

To answer Mark's question, no, the hypervisor is under virtually no load.

Thanks,
Matt

From markw at mohawksoft.com  Thu Oct 21 21:46:59 2021
From: markw at mohawksoft.com (markw at mohawksoft.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2021 21:46:59 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] Virt-Manager
In-Reply-To: <f770f443-7768-7c53-d4b6-272d6592095b@sillydog.org>
References: <99870ed0-deb6-e9df-dfac-de671104f7f2@sillydog.org>
 <20211019002040.5quarkwtehz3encq@randomstring.org>
 <0C871447-9574-4F97-9104-E739FD0562BC@sillydog.org>
 <c85d819c-941d-c4cb-e2ff-dbcb161d1f3a@sillydog.org>
 <14e4df7e5d376de10b408f20d493a608.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
 <98a80eb6-0c1d-25de-3c62-e60a83e39b1f@sillydog.org>
 <df07ba92bf322d07c91da914811a76d2.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
 <43679e86-fad1-c983-2684-881bf48c1aa6@sillydog.org>
 <bc9fc9310eeea39e253e2e34a0c6ea1f.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
 <c887be32-1af5-60c3-5487-386c123df2ea@sillydog.org>
 <d20815fb45282d9b89f6454cb059f25a.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
 <6a79e7a1-96ac-534b-d452-fbb4869bf1f2@sillydog.org>
 <eb676d957da1368e1c829cd5c5c1ddf8.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
 <71672aaf-cef9-67ad-7147-e14b7ba72327@sillydog.org>
 <f770f443-7768-7c53-d4b6-272d6592095b@sillydog.org>
Message-ID: <730bff721fa5eb45193859a3af7f878c.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>

Generally speaking, VMware, HyperV, XEN, and QEMU (KVM) do not emulate the
CPU. The later processors have a mode where they can set up an environment
that is a hardened "sandbox." The software in the sandbox do not really
know that they are in a sandbox. All instructions seem to operate as
expected except for those instructions that think they are dealing with
privileged access. When this happens, the processor traps execution and
jumps to an emulation routine in the hypervisor that manipulates the state
of the VM.

If you are running ARM code on an x86_64 system, you are absolutely
emulating each instruction.

Containers are different, think of them as "chroot" processes with OS hooks.


> Should have gone to the list. Sorry.
>
> On 10/21/21 4:02 PM, Edward wrote:
>> On 10/20/21 22:34, markw at mohawksoft.com wrote:
>>
>>> KVM/QEMU has completely changed how I do software development. I almost
>>> *never* run make in my "work station" environment. I am always
>>> compiling
>>> in a specific VM.
>>>
>>> Anyway, have fun. Virtualization is a little heavier than containers,
>>> but
>>> well worth getting to know better.
>>
>> I was successful installing the LXQt flavors of Lubuntu and PCLinuxOS
>> (PCLOS) into virtual machines and they work well. With PCLOS, the
>> desktop kept repeatedly flashing running it from the live image, so
>> once rebooted but selecting the safe graphics mode at boot, the
>> desktop was then fine and it apparently installed using that same
>> mode, but the desktop resolution is limited to 1600x900. If I select
>> anything wider or larger, it cuts off the bottom of the window. I
>> could move the LXQtPpanel to the top of the screen, but I am used to
>> using it at the bottom.
>>
>> I question whether the VM software emulates a /virtual/ CPU?? In
>> PCLOS, running neofetch in a terminal, displayed the CPU as an AMD
>> Opteron 23xx (Gen 3 Class Opteron) (2) @ 3.199GHz. The actual on-board
>> CPU is an AMD Athlon II X2 260 (2) @ 3.200GHz.
>>
>> I also installed Fedora's LXQt Spin, which took the least amount of VM
>> configuring before the installation, however Fedora 34 did not have
>> the latest LXQt packages (had 0.16, latest is 0.17, next version may
>> be version 1.0) and some of the menus were actually missing their
>> icons./If it were me, I would not have released it with missing icons.
>> /So I deleted the Fedora VM, wasn't happy with it.
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss at lists.blu.org
> http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>



From richard.pieri at gmail.com  Fri Oct 22 09:27:34 2021
From: richard.pieri at gmail.com (Rich Pieri)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2021 09:27:34 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] Virt-Manager
In-Reply-To: <730bff721fa5eb45193859a3af7f878c.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
References: <99870ed0-deb6-e9df-dfac-de671104f7f2@sillydog.org>
 <20211019002040.5quarkwtehz3encq@randomstring.org>
 <0C871447-9574-4F97-9104-E739FD0562BC@sillydog.org>
 <c85d819c-941d-c4cb-e2ff-dbcb161d1f3a@sillydog.org>
 <14e4df7e5d376de10b408f20d493a608.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
 <98a80eb6-0c1d-25de-3c62-e60a83e39b1f@sillydog.org>
 <df07ba92bf322d07c91da914811a76d2.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
 <43679e86-fad1-c983-2684-881bf48c1aa6@sillydog.org>
 <bc9fc9310eeea39e253e2e34a0c6ea1f.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
 <c887be32-1af5-60c3-5487-386c123df2ea@sillydog.org>
 <d20815fb45282d9b89f6454cb059f25a.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
 <6a79e7a1-96ac-534b-d452-fbb4869bf1f2@sillydog.org>
 <eb676d957da1368e1c829cd5c5c1ddf8.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
 <71672aaf-cef9-67ad-7147-e14b7ba72327@sillydog.org>
 <f770f443-7768-7c53-d4b6-272d6592095b@sillydog.org>
 <730bff721fa5eb45193859a3af7f878c.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
Message-ID: <20211022092734.0000543b.Richard.Pieri@gmail.com>

On Thu, 21 Oct 2021 21:46:59 -0400
markw at mohawksoft.com wrote:

> If you are running ARM code on an x86_64 system, you are absolutely
> emulating each instruction.

Kind of but not really. Many emulators like QEMU and some console
emulators use dynamic recompilation. Dynarec picks the binary
executable apart on the fly (dynamic), translates instructions into
native instructions (recompilation), and caches the recompiled
instructions. Usually much faster than traditional binary code
interpreter style emulators which do emulate every instruction in
sequence.

-- 
\m/ (--) \m/

From epp at sillydog.org  Fri Oct 22 10:32:27 2021
From: epp at sillydog.org (Edward)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2021 10:32:27 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] Potential Subject for BLU Meeting
Message-ID: <d03d3420-1c64-8641-378e-4d86416e7ba4@sillydog.org>

Virtual Machines?

I did a Google search on the BLU site for any past meetings pertaining 
to VM's and it found none.



From gaf.linux at gmail.com  Fri Oct 22 10:42:44 2021
From: gaf.linux at gmail.com (Jerry Feldman)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2021 10:42:44 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] Potential Subject for BLU Meeting
In-Reply-To: <d03d3420-1c64-8641-378e-4d86416e7ba4@sillydog.org>
References: <d03d3420-1c64-8641-378e-4d86416e7ba4@sillydog.org>
Message-ID: <CAEvgogHd1=0U9VUSxsn4v2X8ObpHB+kwt59F4KTdcoDp9shYPw@mail.gmail.com>

We have had many meetings on vms and containers. Vms have been around since
the 1970s. KVM has been in the mainline kernel since 2007. Containers are a
more lightweight vm.

--
Jerry Feldman <gaf.linux at gmail.com>
Boston Linux and Unix http://www.blu.org
PGP key id: 6F6BB6E7
PGP Key fingerprint: 0EDC 2FF5 53A6 8EED 84D1  3050 5715 B88D 6F6
B B6E7

On Fri, Oct 22, 2021, 10:34 AM Edward <epp at sillydog.org> wrote:

> Virtual Machines?
>
> I did a Google search on the BLU site for any past meetings pertaining
> to VM's and it found none.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss at lists.blu.org
> http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>

From markw at mohawksoft.com  Sat Oct 23 15:50:36 2021
From: markw at mohawksoft.com (markw at mohawksoft.com)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2021 15:50:36 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] Potential Subject for BLU Meeting
In-Reply-To: <CAEvgogHd1=0U9VUSxsn4v2X8ObpHB+kwt59F4KTdcoDp9shYPw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d03d3420-1c64-8641-378e-4d86416e7ba4@sillydog.org>
 <CAEvgogHd1=0U9VUSxsn4v2X8ObpHB+kwt59F4KTdcoDp9shYPw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c9881629f092c80b334047519838aeac.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>

Containers are NOT a light weight vm. Processes in a container are
processes in the main system.

Containers are essentially processes run in a chroot jail. The LXC stuff
in the linux kernel adds a lot of namespace isolation and tools for
containers, but in the end a process in a container are processes in your
system.

In a VM the hypervisor has a process ID, but all the processes in a VM are
in the VM and not really exposed to the system.

> We have had many meetings on vms and containers. Vms have been around
> since
> the 1970s. KVM has been in the mainline kernel since 2007. Containers are
> a
> more lightweight vm.
>
> --
> Jerry Feldman <gaf.linux at gmail.com>
> Boston Linux and Unix http://www.blu.org
> PGP key id: 6F6BB6E7
> PGP Key fingerprint: 0EDC 2FF5 53A6 8EED 84D1  3050 5715 B88D 6F6
> B B6E7
>
> On Fri, Oct 22, 2021, 10:34 AM Edward <epp at sillydog.org> wrote:
>
>> Virtual Machines?
>>
>> I did a Google search on the BLU site for any past meetings pertaining
>> to VM's and it found none.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Discuss mailing list
>> Discuss at lists.blu.org
>> http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss at lists.blu.org
> http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>



From abreauj at gmail.com  Sun Oct 24 05:16:49 2021
From: abreauj at gmail.com (John Abreau)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2021 05:16:49 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] Potential Subject for BLU Meeting
In-Reply-To: <c9881629f092c80b334047519838aeac.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
References: <d03d3420-1c64-8641-378e-4d86416e7ba4@sillydog.org>
 <CAEvgogHd1=0U9VUSxsn4v2X8ObpHB+kwt59F4KTdcoDp9shYPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <c9881629f092c80b334047519838aeac.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
Message-ID: <CAFv2jcZeA+2zaEJ6GgK7VC=etna_9onoYzHN3fsKgb2Dt_Y5og@mail.gmail.com>

If we ignore containers, we've had the following meetings about VMs, I only
looked back as far as 2009.

April 2019 | Gnome Boxes
July 2012 | The Virtual Desktop
March 2012 | Red Hat Enterprise Virtualization Manager
November 2009 | AMD-V: AMD64 virtualization extension
October 2009 | Virtualization on the Desktop
February 2009 | Virtualization Deep Dive Day

A talk on the current status of VMs would be useful.

I run a few VMs at home, but I don't run them on my desktop or laptop
machines; I have a rackmount server I purchased on eBay with 32 GB of RAM
and24 CPU cores, and I run kvm/quemu on it with CentOS 7 as the OS.



On Sat, Oct 23, 2021 at 3:52 PM <markw at mohawksoft.com> wrote:

> Containers are NOT a light weight vm. Processes in a container are
> processes in the main system.
>
> Containers are essentially processes run in a chroot jail. The LXC stuff
> in the linux kernel adds a lot of namespace isolation and tools for
> containers, but in the end a process in a container are processes in your
> system.
>
> In a VM the hypervisor has a process ID, but all the processes in a VM are
> in the VM and not really exposed to the system.
>
> > We have had many meetings on vms and containers. Vms have been around
> > since
> > the 1970s. KVM has been in the mainline kernel since 2007. Containers are
> > a
> > more lightweight vm.
> >
> > --
> > Jerry Feldman <gaf.linux at gmail.com>
> > Boston Linux and Unix http://www.blu.org
> > PGP key id: 6F6BB6E7
> > PGP Key fingerprint: 0EDC 2FF5 53A6 8EED 84D1  3050 5715 B88D 6F6
> > B B6E7
> >
> > On Fri, Oct 22, 2021, 10:34 AM Edward <epp at sillydog.org> wrote:
> >
> >> Virtual Machines?
> >>
> >> I did a Google search on the BLU site for any past meetings pertaining
> >> to VM's and it found none.
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Discuss mailing list
> >> Discuss at lists.blu.org
> >> http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Discuss mailing list
> > Discuss at lists.blu.org
> > http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss at lists.blu.org
> http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>


-- 
John Abreau / Executive Director, Boston Linux & Unix
Email: abreauj at gmail.com / WWW http://www.abreau.net / PGP-Key-ID 0x920063C6
PGP-Key-Fingerprint A5AD 6BE1 FEFE 8E4F 5C23  C2D0 E885 E17C 9200 63C6

From markw at mohawksoft.com  Sun Oct 24 09:35:30 2021
From: markw at mohawksoft.com (markw at mohawksoft.com)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2021 09:35:30 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] Potential Subject for BLU Meeting
In-Reply-To: <CAFv2jcZeA+2zaEJ6GgK7VC=etna_9onoYzHN3fsKgb2Dt_Y5og@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d03d3420-1c64-8641-378e-4d86416e7ba4@sillydog.org>
 <CAEvgogHd1=0U9VUSxsn4v2X8ObpHB+kwt59F4KTdcoDp9shYPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <c9881629f092c80b334047519838aeac.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
 <CAFv2jcZeA+2zaEJ6GgK7VC=etna_9onoYzHN3fsKgb2Dt_Y5og@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <cb47d1df529b526abf815da5ff07bf6d.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>

I think it may be cool if there were a "deep dive" on virtualization *and*
containers.

(1) Brief discussion about what virtualization is
(2) VMware, HyperV, KVM/QEMU, and XEN, what the basic differences are.
(3) Deep dive on KVM/QEMU
 (3a) VirtIO
 (3b) Networking NAT, Bridge
 (3c) Utilities
(4) Brief discussion about containers
(5) LXC, Docker, Podman, and Kubernetes
(6) Deep dive on Podman
 (6a) namespaces
 (6b) Networking
 (6c) Mapping directories into containers
 (6d) Utilities
(7) Examples


The above would be a master class and probably have to be a collaborative
work, but VMs and containers are the foundations of cloud computing and
covering this stuff would be very helpful to anyone trying to wade through
this stuff.

> If we ignore containers, we've had the following meetings about VMs, I
> only
> looked back as far as 2009.
>
> April 2019 | Gnome Boxes
> July 2012 | The Virtual Desktop
> March 2012 | Red Hat Enterprise Virtualization Manager
> November 2009 | AMD-V: AMD64 virtualization extension
> October 2009 | Virtualization on the Desktop
> February 2009 | Virtualization Deep Dive Day
>
> A talk on the current status of VMs would be useful.
>
> I run a few VMs at home, but I don't run them on my desktop or laptop
> machines; I have a rackmount server I purchased on eBay with 32 GB of RAM
> and24 CPU cores, and I run kvm/quemu on it with CentOS 7 as the OS.
>
>
>
> On Sat, Oct 23, 2021 at 3:52 PM <markw at mohawksoft.com> wrote:
>
>> Containers are NOT a light weight vm. Processes in a container are
>> processes in the main system.
>>
>> Containers are essentially processes run in a chroot jail. The LXC stuff
>> in the linux kernel adds a lot of namespace isolation and tools for
>> containers, but in the end a process in a container are processes in
>> your
>> system.
>>
>> In a VM the hypervisor has a process ID, but all the processes in a VM
>> are
>> in the VM and not really exposed to the system.
>>
>> > We have had many meetings on vms and containers. Vms have been around
>> > since
>> > the 1970s. KVM has been in the mainline kernel since 2007. Containers
>> are
>> > a
>> > more lightweight vm.
>> >
>> > --
>> > Jerry Feldman <gaf.linux at gmail.com>
>> > Boston Linux and Unix http://www.blu.org
>> > PGP key id: 6F6BB6E7
>> > PGP Key fingerprint: 0EDC 2FF5 53A6 8EED 84D1  3050 5715 B88D 6F6
>> > B B6E7
>> >
>> > On Fri, Oct 22, 2021, 10:34 AM Edward <epp at sillydog.org> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Virtual Machines?
>> >>
>> >> I did a Google search on the BLU site for any past meetings
>> pertaining
>> >> to VM's and it found none.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Discuss mailing list
>> >> Discuss at lists.blu.org
>> >> http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>> >>
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Discuss mailing list
>> > Discuss at lists.blu.org
>> > http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>> >
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Discuss mailing list
>> Discuss at lists.blu.org
>> http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>>
>
>
> --
> John Abreau / Executive Director, Boston Linux & Unix
> Email: abreauj at gmail.com / WWW http://www.abreau.net / PGP-Key-ID
> 0x920063C6
> PGP-Key-Fingerprint A5AD 6BE1 FEFE 8E4F 5C23  C2D0 E885 E17C 9200 63C6
>



From bill.n1vux at gmail.com  Sun Oct 24 10:59:19 2021
From: bill.n1vux at gmail.com (Bill Ricker)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2021 10:59:19 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] Potential Subject for BLU Meeting
In-Reply-To: <cb47d1df529b526abf815da5ff07bf6d.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
References: <d03d3420-1c64-8641-378e-4d86416e7ba4@sillydog.org>
 <CAEvgogHd1=0U9VUSxsn4v2X8ObpHB+kwt59F4KTdcoDp9shYPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <c9881629f092c80b334047519838aeac.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
 <CAFv2jcZeA+2zaEJ6GgK7VC=etna_9onoYzHN3fsKgb2Dt_Y5og@mail.gmail.com>
 <cb47d1df529b526abf815da5ff07bf6d.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
Message-ID: <CAAbKA3Ugp7=FLMgLshmkNV=GC4BCH6Zk2aD7rRhaeP+qR5C-rA@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Oct 24, 2021, 09:36 <markw at mohawksoft.com> wrote:

> I think it may be cool if there were a "deep dive" on virtualization *and*
> containers.
>

I'd quibble that this outline is breadth-first, not depth, if it fits in a
single evening, but yes, very, good outline.

Explicitly including discography of which is good for what, and vice-
versa:   when not to hammer screws just because you have a hammer

From markw at mohawksoft.com  Sun Oct 24 11:41:40 2021
From: markw at mohawksoft.com (markw at mohawksoft.com)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2021 11:41:40 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] Potential Subject for BLU Meeting
In-Reply-To: <CAAbKA3Ugp7=FLMgLshmkNV=GC4BCH6Zk2aD7rRhaeP+qR5C-rA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d03d3420-1c64-8641-378e-4d86416e7ba4@sillydog.org>
 <CAEvgogHd1=0U9VUSxsn4v2X8ObpHB+kwt59F4KTdcoDp9shYPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <c9881629f092c80b334047519838aeac.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
 <CAFv2jcZeA+2zaEJ6GgK7VC=etna_9onoYzHN3fsKgb2Dt_Y5og@mail.gmail.com>
 <cb47d1df529b526abf815da5ff07bf6d.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
 <CAAbKA3Ugp7=FLMgLshmkNV=GC4BCH6Zk2aD7rRhaeP+qR5C-rA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4a9c1ee0c2df444597875cd17bbd89b1.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>

> On Sun, Oct 24, 2021, 09:36 <markw at mohawksoft.com> wrote:
>
>> I think it may be cool if there were a "deep dive" on virtualization
>> *and*
>> containers.
>>
>
> I'd quibble that this outline is breadth-first, not depth, if it fits in a
> single evening, but yes, very, good outline.
>
> Explicitly including discography of which is good for what, and vice-
> versa:   when not to hammer screws just because you have a hammer
>

I agree.

Containers and VMs are very different technologies, but there is a lot
overlap on tasks for which they are intended for use.


From epp at sillydog.org  Mon Oct 25 14:43:30 2021
From: epp at sillydog.org (Edward)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2021 14:43:30 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] Virt-Manager
In-Reply-To: <20211022092734.0000543b.Richard.Pieri@gmail.com>
References: <99870ed0-deb6-e9df-dfac-de671104f7f2@sillydog.org>
 <20211019002040.5quarkwtehz3encq@randomstring.org>
 <0C871447-9574-4F97-9104-E739FD0562BC@sillydog.org>
 <c85d819c-941d-c4cb-e2ff-dbcb161d1f3a@sillydog.org>
 <14e4df7e5d376de10b408f20d493a608.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
 <98a80eb6-0c1d-25de-3c62-e60a83e39b1f@sillydog.org>
 <df07ba92bf322d07c91da914811a76d2.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
 <43679e86-fad1-c983-2684-881bf48c1aa6@sillydog.org>
 <bc9fc9310eeea39e253e2e34a0c6ea1f.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
 <c887be32-1af5-60c3-5487-386c123df2ea@sillydog.org>
 <d20815fb45282d9b89f6454cb059f25a.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
 <6a79e7a1-96ac-534b-d452-fbb4869bf1f2@sillydog.org>
 <eb676d957da1368e1c829cd5c5c1ddf8.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
 <71672aaf-cef9-67ad-7147-e14b7ba72327@sillydog.org>
 <f770f443-7768-7c53-d4b6-272d6592095b@sillydog.org>
 <730bff721fa5eb45193859a3af7f878c.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
 <20211022092734.0000543b.Richard.Pieri@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8c19db84-9c80-2bde-72ca-bdc31288b267@sillydog.org>

After realizing that I forgot to add the relevant USB hardware to the 
VM, I deleted it, as they could be not added after the fact.

Upon attempting to recreate it with the USB hardware added in, all 
attempts were unsuccessful. virt-manager wants the name of the distro 
during the creation of the VM. Since the name of the distro (PCLinuxOS) 
was not in the database, I tried all four of the 'Generic' entries, the 
latest Mandriva (EOL) entry (2011) since the distro was originally based 
on Mandriva), Clear Linux, Arch Linux and finally Ubuntu.

None of these would boot the image into a usable live desktop to which 
the OS could then be installed. The image either crashed within the VM, 
it froze on the screen to select the keyboard, or IF the desktop 
appeared, once a second Network Manager applet icon appeared, the video 
server crashes and reboots the desktop, repeatedly. The only way to exit 
was to use virt-manager's Force Off option.

So I have reached the conclusion, that, in a home environment, a VM 
serves no useful purpose and is quite frankly, a waste of time, IMHO.



From eric.chadbourne at icloud.com  Mon Oct 25 14:55:09 2021
From: eric.chadbourne at icloud.com (Eric Chadbourne)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2021 14:55:09 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] Virt-Manager
In-Reply-To: <8c19db84-9c80-2bde-72ca-bdc31288b267@sillydog.org>
References: <8c19db84-9c80-2bde-72ca-bdc31288b267@sillydog.org>
Message-ID: <E8B14920-05D5-4E9F-A629-CFEB5CCD1483@icloud.com>

As an alternative I use Virtualbox at home.  Works great.  Zero complaints.  I use Vagrant on occasion to control programmatically.  

I started with Virtualbox years ago as it supported older CPUs.  I think somebody on this list turned me on to it.  

Hope that helps.  

Eric C

Chadbourne.Consulting

> On Oct 25, 2021, at 2:44 PM, Edward <epp at sillydog.org> wrote:
> 
> ?After realizing that I forgot to add the relevant USB hardware to the VM, I deleted it, as they could be not added after the fact.
> 
> Upon attempting to recreate it with the USB hardware added in, all attempts were unsuccessful. virt-manager wants the name of the distro during the creation of the VM. Since the name of the distro (PCLinuxOS) was not in the database, I tried all four of the 'Generic' entries, the latest Mandriva (EOL) entry (2011) since the distro was originally based on Mandriva), Clear Linux, Arch Linux and finally Ubuntu.
> 
> None of these would boot the image into a usable live desktop to which the OS could then be installed. The image either crashed within the VM, it froze on the screen to select the keyboard, or IF the desktop appeared, once a second Network Manager applet icon appeared, the video server crashes and reboots the desktop, repeatedly. The only way to exit was to use virt-manager's Force Off option.
> 
> So I have reached the conclusion, that, in a home environment, a VM serves no useful purpose and is quite frankly, a waste of time, IMHO.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss at lists.blu.org
> http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss

From epp at sillydog.org  Mon Oct 25 15:18:38 2021
From: epp at sillydog.org (Edward)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2021 15:18:38 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] Virt-Manager
In-Reply-To: <E8B14920-05D5-4E9F-A629-CFEB5CCD1483@icloud.com>
References: <8c19db84-9c80-2bde-72ca-bdc31288b267@sillydog.org>
 <E8B14920-05D5-4E9F-A629-CFEB5CCD1483@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <7bf7aa22-c0a5-ca9d-e04b-3db3508f2aa3@sillydog.org>

Debian does not provide VirtualBox. They only offer virt-manager and 
Gnome Boxes.

The system basically wants to install most (if not all) of the same 
dependencies for Gnome Boxes, that it did for virt-manager. When I was 
using Fedora, Jerry told me about Gnome Boxes and I found it very easy 
to use. But given my experience with virt-manager, I would expect the 
same issues if I tried Gnome Boxes.

I went with PCLOS' Community LXQt image because I'm used to that desktop 
and it's lightweight, wasn't expecting any issues running/installing it 
in a VM.



On 10/25/21 14:55, Eric Chadbourne wrote:
> As an alternative I use Virtualbox at home.  Works great.  Zero complaints.  I use Vagrant on occasion to control programmatically.
>
> I started with Virtualbox years ago as it supported older CPUs.  I think somebody on this list turned me on to it.
>
> Hope that helps.
>
> Eric C
>
> Chadbourne.Consulting
>
>> On Oct 25, 2021, at 2:44 PM, Edward <epp at sillydog.org> wrote:
>>
>> ?After realizing that I forgot to add the relevant USB hardware to the VM, I deleted it, as they could be not added after the fact.
>>
>> Upon attempting to recreate it with the USB hardware added in, all attempts were unsuccessful. virt-manager wants the name of the distro during the creation of the VM. Since the name of the distro (PCLinuxOS) was not in the database, I tried all four of the 'Generic' entries, the latest Mandriva (EOL) entry (2011) since the distro was originally based on Mandriva), Clear Linux, Arch Linux and finally Ubuntu.
>>
>> None of these would boot the image into a usable live desktop to which the OS could then be installed. The image either crashed within the VM, it froze on the screen to select the keyboard, or IF the desktop appeared, once a second Network Manager applet icon appeared, the video server crashes and reboots the desktop, repeatedly. The only way to exit was to use virt-manager's Force Off option.
>>
>> So I have reached the conclusion, that, in a home environment, a VM serves no useful purpose and is quite frankly, a waste of time, IMHO.


From markw at mohawksoft.com  Mon Oct 25 15:36:29 2021
From: markw at mohawksoft.com (markw at mohawksoft.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2021 15:36:29 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] Virt-Manager
In-Reply-To: <7bf7aa22-c0a5-ca9d-e04b-3db3508f2aa3@sillydog.org>
References: <8c19db84-9c80-2bde-72ca-bdc31288b267@sillydog.org>
 <E8B14920-05D5-4E9F-A629-CFEB5CCD1483@icloud.com>
 <7bf7aa22-c0a5-ca9d-e04b-3db3508f2aa3@sillydog.org>
Message-ID: <0579f792029609f9e585c36bce84b74d.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>

Can we go back to what was going on?

Were you trying to boot an iso image and it hung?

If the iso image is bigger than 4G, you need to make the CDROM virtual
device an emulated SATA not IDE. Try that.

I have had years of great experiences with KVM/QEMU, but there are some
weird issues in most of the hypervisors and this mostly happens when
arcane hardware stuff creeps in to the software world.

You should look at VMware an NUMA after 8 CPUs, what a disaster.

Do you have a link to the ISO you are trying to install? I'd like to try it.

> Debian does not provide VirtualBox. They only offer virt-manager and
> Gnome Boxes.
>
> The system basically wants to install most (if not all) of the same
> dependencies for Gnome Boxes, that it did for virt-manager. When I was
> using Fedora, Jerry told me about Gnome Boxes and I found it very easy
> to use. But given my experience with virt-manager, I would expect the
> same issues if I tried Gnome Boxes.
>
> I went with PCLOS' Community LXQt image because I'm used to that desktop
> and it's lightweight, wasn't expecting any issues running/installing it
> in a VM.
>
>
>
> On 10/25/21 14:55, Eric Chadbourne wrote:
>> As an alternative I use Virtualbox at home.  Works great.  Zero
>> complaints.  I use Vagrant on occasion to control programmatically.
>>
>> I started with Virtualbox years ago as it supported older CPUs.  I think
>> somebody on this list turned me on to it.
>>
>> Hope that helps.
>>
>> Eric C
>>
>> Chadbourne.Consulting
>>
>>> On Oct 25, 2021, at 2:44 PM, Edward <epp at sillydog.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> ???After realizing that I forgot to add the relevant USB hardware to
>>> the VM, I deleted it, as they could be not added after the fact.
>>>
>>> Upon attempting to recreate it with the USB hardware added in, all
>>> attempts were unsuccessful. virt-manager wants the name of the distro
>>> during the creation of the VM. Since the name of the distro (PCLinuxOS)
>>> was not in the database, I tried all four of the 'Generic' entries, the
>>> latest Mandriva (EOL) entry (2011) since the distro was originally
>>> based on Mandriva), Clear Linux, Arch Linux and finally Ubuntu.
>>>
>>> None of these would boot the image into a usable live desktop to which
>>> the OS could then be installed. The image either crashed within the VM,
>>> it froze on the screen to select the keyboard, or IF the desktop
>>> appeared, once a second Network Manager applet icon appeared, the video
>>> server crashes and reboots the desktop, repeatedly. The only way to
>>> exit was to use virt-manager's Force Off option.
>>>
>>> So I have reached the conclusion, that, in a home environment, a VM
>>> serves no useful purpose and is quite frankly, a waste of time, IMHO.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss at lists.blu.org
> http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>



From eric.chadbourne at icloud.com  Mon Oct 25 15:37:13 2021
From: eric.chadbourne at icloud.com (Eric Chadbourne)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2021 15:37:13 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] Virt-Manager
In-Reply-To: <7bf7aa22-c0a5-ca9d-e04b-3db3508f2aa3@sillydog.org>
References: <7bf7aa22-c0a5-ca9d-e04b-3db3508f2aa3@sillydog.org>
Message-ID: <D07D964A-81E0-43F3-A3AB-26B0633EE00C@icloud.com>

True Debian doesn't "provide" VirtualBox but it's trivial to install.  Been working great for me since at least 2005.  

Eric C

> On Oct 25, 2021, at 3:19 PM, Edward <epp at sillydog.org> wrote:
> 
> ?Debian does not provide VirtualBox. They only offer virt-manager and Gnome Boxes.
> 
> The system basically wants to install most (if not all) of the same dependencies for Gnome Boxes, that it did for virt-manager. When I was using Fedora, Jerry told me about Gnome Boxes and I found it very easy to use. But given my experience with virt-manager, I would expect the same issues if I tried Gnome Boxes.
> 
> I went with PCLOS' Community LXQt image because I'm used to that desktop and it's lightweight, wasn't expecting any issues running/installing it in a VM.
> 
> 
> 
>> On 10/25/21 14:55, Eric Chadbourne wrote:
>> As an alternative I use Virtualbox at home.  Works great.  Zero complaints.  I use Vagrant on occasion to control programmatically.
>> 
>> I started with Virtualbox years ago as it supported older CPUs.  I think somebody on this list turned me on to it.
>> 
>> Hope that helps.
>> 
>> Eric C
>> 
>> Chadbourne.Consulting
>> 
>>>> On Oct 25, 2021, at 2:44 PM, Edward <epp at sillydog.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ?After realizing that I forgot to add the relevant USB hardware to the VM, I deleted it, as they could be not added after the fact.
>>> 
>>> Upon attempting to recreate it with the USB hardware added in, all attempts were unsuccessful. virt-manager wants the name of the distro during the creation of the VM. Since the name of the distro (PCLinuxOS) was not in the database, I tried all four of the 'Generic' entries, the latest Mandriva (EOL) entry (2011) since the distro was originally based on Mandriva), Clear Linux, Arch Linux and finally Ubuntu.
>>> 
>>> None of these would boot the image into a usable live desktop to which the OS could then be installed. The image either crashed within the VM, it froze on the screen to select the keyboard, or IF the desktop appeared, once a second Network Manager applet icon appeared, the video server crashes and reboots the desktop, repeatedly. The only way to exit was to use virt-manager's Force Off option.
>>> 
>>> So I have reached the conclusion, that, in a home environment, a VM serves no useful purpose and is quite frankly, a waste of time, IMHO.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss at lists.blu.org
> http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss

From eric.chadbourne at icloud.com  Mon Oct 25 15:43:15 2021
From: eric.chadbourne at icloud.com (Eric Chadbourne)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2021 15:43:15 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] Virt-Manager
In-Reply-To: <D07D964A-81E0-43F3-A3AB-26B0633EE00C@icloud.com>
References: <D07D964A-81E0-43F3-A3AB-26B0633EE00C@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <089CE596-97CA-474E-AC9B-ACB44529803F@icloud.com>

Actually more like 2008.   I've never tried the tools you mention.  Probably should sometime.  Maybe a meeting could be a couple of people showing how they do their vm's.  My environment is simple.  Works great though.

Eric C

> On Oct 25, 2021, at 3:37 PM, Eric Chadbourne <eric.chadbourne at icloud.com> wrote:
> 
> ?True Debian doesn't "provide" VirtualBox but it's trivial to install.  Been working great for me since at least 2005.  
> 
> Eric C
> 
>> On Oct 25, 2021, at 3:19 PM, Edward <epp at sillydog.org> wrote:
>> 
>> ?Debian does not provide VirtualBox. They only offer virt-manager and Gnome Boxes.
>> 
>> The system basically wants to install most (if not all) of the same dependencies for Gnome Boxes, that it did for virt-manager. When I was using Fedora, Jerry told me about Gnome Boxes and I found it very easy to use. But given my experience with virt-manager, I would expect the same issues if I tried Gnome Boxes.
>> 
>> I went with PCLOS' Community LXQt image because I'm used to that desktop and it's lightweight, wasn't expecting any issues running/installing it in a VM.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>>> On 10/25/21 14:55, Eric Chadbourne wrote:
>>> As an alternative I use Virtualbox at home.  Works great.  Zero complaints.  I use Vagrant on occasion to control programmatically.
>>> 
>>> I started with Virtualbox years ago as it supported older CPUs.  I think somebody on this list turned me on to it.
>>> 
>>> Hope that helps.
>>> 
>>> Eric C
>>> 
>>> Chadbourne.Consulting
>>> 
>>>>> On Oct 25, 2021, at 2:44 PM, Edward <epp at sillydog.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> ?After realizing that I forgot to add the relevant USB hardware to the VM, I deleted it, as they could be not added after the fact.
>>>> 
>>>> Upon attempting to recreate it with the USB hardware added in, all attempts were unsuccessful. virt-manager wants the name of the distro during the creation of the VM. Since the name of the distro (PCLinuxOS) was not in the database, I tried all four of the 'Generic' entries, the latest Mandriva (EOL) entry (2011) since the distro was originally based on Mandriva), Clear Linux, Arch Linux and finally Ubuntu.
>>>> 
>>>> None of these would boot the image into a usable live desktop to which the OS could then be installed. The image either crashed within the VM, it froze on the screen to select the keyboard, or IF the desktop appeared, once a second Network Manager applet icon appeared, the video server crashes and reboots the desktop, repeatedly. The only way to exit was to use virt-manager's Force Off option.
>>>> 
>>>> So I have reached the conclusion, that, in a home environment, a VM serves no useful purpose and is quite frankly, a waste of time, IMHO.
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Discuss mailing list
>> Discuss at lists.blu.org
>> http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss

From epp at sillydog.org  Mon Oct 25 15:44:53 2021
From: epp at sillydog.org (Edward)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2021 15:44:53 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] Virt-Manager
In-Reply-To: <0579f792029609f9e585c36bce84b74d.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
References: <8c19db84-9c80-2bde-72ca-bdc31288b267@sillydog.org>
 <E8B14920-05D5-4E9F-A629-CFEB5CCD1483@icloud.com>
 <7bf7aa22-c0a5-ca9d-e04b-3db3508f2aa3@sillydog.org>
 <0579f792029609f9e585c36bce84b74d.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
Message-ID: <0851fd8e-e9de-f4ee-60bf-3415cbfd1fc6@sillydog.org>

https://ftp.nluug.nl/os/Linux/distr/pclinuxos/pclinuxos/live-cd/community/

It's the communuty-pclinuxos64-lxqt-2021.10 image. NLUUG is the only 
mirror where the download speeds are decent.

At the other mirror they use (at pclosusers.com), it would have taken an 
hour and a half to download the same 1.8G image (on a 400Mbps 
connection), so the individual behind PCLOS had the images uploaded to 
NLUUG. I do not know where pclosusers.com is located.


On 10/25/21 15:36, markw at mohawksoft.com wrote:
> Can we go back to what was going on?
>
> Were you trying to boot an iso image and it hung?
>
> If the iso image is bigger than 4G, you need to make the CDROM virtual
> device an emulated SATA not IDE. Try that.
>
> I have had years of great experiences with KVM/QEMU, but there are some
> weird issues in most of the hypervisors and this mostly happens when
> arcane hardware stuff creeps in to the software world.
>
> You should look at VMware an NUMA after 8 CPUs, what a disaster.
>
> Do you have a link to the ISO you are trying to install? I'd like to try it.
>
>> Debian does not provide VirtualBox. They only offer virt-manager and
>> Gnome Boxes.
>>
>> The system basically wants to install most (if not all) of the same
>> dependencies for Gnome Boxes, that it did for virt-manager. When I was
>> using Fedora, Jerry told me about Gnome Boxes and I found it very easy
>> to use. But given my experience with virt-manager, I would expect the
>> same issues if I tried Gnome Boxes.
>>
>> I went with PCLOS' Community LXQt image because I'm used to that desktop
>> and it's lightweight, wasn't expecting any issues running/installing it
>> in a VM.
>>
>>


From gaf.linux at gmail.com  Mon Oct 25 15:51:09 2021
From: gaf.linux at gmail.com (Jerry Feldman)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2021 15:51:09 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] Virt-Manager
In-Reply-To: <7bf7aa22-c0a5-ca9d-e04b-3db3508f2aa3@sillydog.org>
References: <8c19db84-9c80-2bde-72ca-bdc31288b267@sillydog.org>
 <E8B14920-05D5-4E9F-A629-CFEB5CCD1483@icloud.com>
 <7bf7aa22-c0a5-ca9d-e04b-3db3508f2aa3@sillydog.org>
Message-ID: <CAEvgogHJOFNNpHhvuMesQbO3GM7q+=+qoL8ypn8k74MjfeQw8Q@mail.gmail.com>

You have to download Virtiualbox from virtualbox.org.
I just installed pclinuxos kde using virt-manager successfully
First, I set it as "Generic Linux 2020"
I booted into the LiveCD. Once that came up, I then installed PCLINUXOS.
After it installed, I shut down the LiveCD vm and booted pclinuxos. It came
up fine, and networking was working.
I'm not sure what issues that the OP has, but this is what worked for me.


On Mon, Oct 25, 2021 at 3:20 PM Edward <epp at sillydog.org> wrote:

> Debian does not provide VirtualBox. They only offer virt-manager and
> Gnome Boxes.
>
> The system basically wants to install most (if not all) of the same
> dependencies for Gnome Boxes, that it did for virt-manager. When I was
> using Fedora, Jerry told me about Gnome Boxes and I found it very easy
> to use. But given my experience with virt-manager, I would expect the
> same issues if I tried Gnome Boxes.
>
> I went with PCLOS' Community LXQt image because I'm used to that desktop
> and it's lightweight, wasn't expecting any issues running/installing it
> in a VM.
>
>
>
> On 10/25/21 14:55, Eric Chadbourne wrote:
> > As an alternative I use Virtualbox at home.  Works great.  Zero
> complaints.  I use Vagrant on occasion to control programmatically.
> >
> > I started with Virtualbox years ago as it supported older CPUs.  I think
> somebody on this list turned me on to it.
> >
> > Hope that helps.
> >
> > Eric C
> >
> > Chadbourne.Consulting
> >
> >> On Oct 25, 2021, at 2:44 PM, Edward <epp at sillydog.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> ?After realizing that I forgot to add the relevant USB hardware to the
> VM, I deleted it, as they could be not added after the fact.
> >>
> >> Upon attempting to recreate it with the USB hardware added in, all
> attempts were unsuccessful. virt-manager wants the name of the distro
> during the creation of the VM. Since the name of the distro (PCLinuxOS) was
> not in the database, I tried all four of the 'Generic' entries, the latest
> Mandriva (EOL) entry (2011) since the distro was originally based on
> Mandriva), Clear Linux, Arch Linux and finally Ubuntu.
> >>
> >> None of these would boot the image into a usable live desktop to which
> the OS could then be installed. The image either crashed within the VM, it
> froze on the screen to select the keyboard, or IF the desktop appeared,
> once a second Network Manager applet icon appeared, the video server
> crashes and reboots the desktop, repeatedly. The only way to exit was to
> use virt-manager's Force Off option.
> >>
> >> So I have reached the conclusion, that, in a home environment, a VM
> serves no useful purpose and is quite frankly, a waste of time, IMHO.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss at lists.blu.org
> http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>


-- 
--
Jerry Feldman <gaf.linux at gmail.com>
Boston Linux and Unix
PGP key id: 6F6BB6E7
Key fingerprint: 0EDC 2FF5 53A6 8EED 84D1  3050 5715 B88D 6F6B B6E7

From gaf.linux at gmail.com  Mon Oct 25 15:56:08 2021
From: gaf.linux at gmail.com (Jerry Feldman)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2021 15:56:08 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] Virt-Manager
In-Reply-To: <CAEvgogHJOFNNpHhvuMesQbO3GM7q+=+qoL8ypn8k74MjfeQw8Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8c19db84-9c80-2bde-72ca-bdc31288b267@sillydog.org>
 <E8B14920-05D5-4E9F-A629-CFEB5CCD1483@icloud.com>
 <7bf7aa22-c0a5-ca9d-e04b-3db3508f2aa3@sillydog.org>
 <CAEvgogHJOFNNpHhvuMesQbO3GM7q+=+qoL8ypn8k74MjfeQw8Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEvgogHOnRt+G5BTwPneDStdt1FnzJN-MkkRtCBLwFeEYGHKTQ@mail.gmail.com>

I'm trying to reproduce Ed's issues. The ISO is 2.75 GB. This should fit on
smaller desktop systems. I'm downloading OP's iso image now. I'll report
after I install.

On Mon, Oct 25, 2021 at 3:51 PM Jerry Feldman <gaf.linux at gmail.com> wrote:

> You have to download Virtiualbox from virtualbox.org.
> I just installed pclinuxos kde using virt-manager successfully
> First, I set it as "Generic Linux 2020"
> I booted into the LiveCD. Once that came up, I then installed PCLINUXOS.
> After it installed, I shut down the LiveCD vm and booted pclinuxos. It
> came up fine, and networking was working.
> I'm not sure what issues that the OP has, but this is what worked for me.
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 25, 2021 at 3:20 PM Edward <epp at sillydog.org> wrote:
>
>> Debian does not provide VirtualBox. They only offer virt-manager and
>> Gnome Boxes.
>>
>> The system basically wants to install most (if not all) of the same
>> dependencies for Gnome Boxes, that it did for virt-manager. When I was
>> using Fedora, Jerry told me about Gnome Boxes and I found it very easy
>> to use. But given my experience with virt-manager, I would expect the
>> same issues if I tried Gnome Boxes.
>>
>> I went with PCLOS' Community LXQt image because I'm used to that desktop
>> and it's lightweight, wasn't expecting any issues running/installing it
>> in a VM.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 10/25/21 14:55, Eric Chadbourne wrote:
>> > As an alternative I use Virtualbox at home.  Works great.  Zero
>> complaints.  I use Vagrant on occasion to control programmatically.
>> >
>> > I started with Virtualbox years ago as it supported older CPUs.  I
>> think somebody on this list turned me on to it.
>> >
>> > Hope that helps.
>> >
>> > Eric C
>> >
>> > Chadbourne.Consulting
>> >
>> >> On Oct 25, 2021, at 2:44 PM, Edward <epp at sillydog.org> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> ?After realizing that I forgot to add the relevant USB hardware to the
>> VM, I deleted it, as they could be not added after the fact.
>> >>
>> >> Upon attempting to recreate it with the USB hardware added in, all
>> attempts were unsuccessful. virt-manager wants the name of the distro
>> during the creation of the VM. Since the name of the distro (PCLinuxOS) was
>> not in the database, I tried all four of the 'Generic' entries, the latest
>> Mandriva (EOL) entry (2011) since the distro was originally based on
>> Mandriva), Clear Linux, Arch Linux and finally Ubuntu.
>> >>
>> >> None of these would boot the image into a usable live desktop to which
>> the OS could then be installed. The image either crashed within the VM, it
>> froze on the screen to select the keyboard, or IF the desktop appeared,
>> once a second Network Manager applet icon appeared, the video server
>> crashes and reboots the desktop, repeatedly. The only way to exit was to
>> use virt-manager's Force Off option.
>> >>
>> >> So I have reached the conclusion, that, in a home environment, a VM
>> serves no useful purpose and is quite frankly, a waste of time, IMHO.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Discuss mailing list
>> Discuss at lists.blu.org
>> http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>>
>
>
> --
> --
> Jerry Feldman <gaf.linux at gmail.com>
> Boston Linux and Unix
> PGP key id: 6F6BB6E7
> Key fingerprint: 0EDC 2FF5 53A6 8EED 84D1  3050 5715 B88D 6F6B B6E7
>


-- 
--
Jerry Feldman <gaf.linux at gmail.com>
Boston Linux and Unix
PGP key id: 6F6BB6E7
Key fingerprint: 0EDC 2FF5 53A6 8EED 84D1  3050 5715 B88D 6F6B B6E7

From epp at sillydog.org  Mon Oct 25 15:56:48 2021
From: epp at sillydog.org (Edward)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2021 15:56:48 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] Virt-Manager
In-Reply-To: <CAEvgogHJOFNNpHhvuMesQbO3GM7q+=+qoL8ypn8k74MjfeQw8Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8c19db84-9c80-2bde-72ca-bdc31288b267@sillydog.org>
 <E8B14920-05D5-4E9F-A629-CFEB5CCD1483@icloud.com>
 <7bf7aa22-c0a5-ca9d-e04b-3db3508f2aa3@sillydog.org>
 <CAEvgogHJOFNNpHhvuMesQbO3GM7q+=+qoL8ypn8k74MjfeQw8Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9f5a1adb-9966-765c-4997-dc983afd482c@sillydog.org>

You may be interested to know that the LXQt PCLOS image contains 
download managers for VIrtual Box and Libre Office. I think it has one 
or two others as well.

Generic Linux 2020, in fact, *none* of the Generlc entries successfully 
worked once I added in the USB hardware to create the vm. Without the 
USB hardware, it originally installed fine. But AFAIK, you can't add the 
USB hardware*after the fact* with virt-manager. So when recreating the 
vm with USB afterwards, that's when I had the problems.


On 10/25/21 15:51, Jerry Feldman wrote:
> You?have to download Virtiualbox from virtualbox.org 
> <http://virtualbox.org>.
> I just?installed?pclinuxos kde using virt-manager successfully
> First, I set it as "Generic Linux 2020"
> I booted into the LiveCD. Once that came up, I then installed PCLINUXOS.
> After it installed, I shut down the LiveCD vm and booted pclinuxos. It 
> came up fine, and networking was working.
> I'm not sure what issues that the OP has, but this is what?worked for me.
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 25, 2021 at 3:20 PM Edward <epp at sillydog.org> wrote:
>
>     Debian does not provide VirtualBox. They only offer virt-manager and
>     Gnome Boxes.
>
>     The system basically wants to install most (if not all) of the same
>     dependencies for Gnome Boxes, that it did for virt-manager. When I
>     was
>     using Fedora, Jerry told me about Gnome Boxes and I found it very
>     easy
>     to use. But given my experience with virt-manager, I would expect the
>     same issues if I tried Gnome Boxes.
>
>     I went with PCLOS' Community LXQt image because I'm used to that
>     desktop
>     and it's lightweight, wasn't expecting any issues
>     running/installing it
>     in a VM.
>
>
>
>     On 10/25/21 14:55, Eric Chadbourne wrote:
>     > As an alternative I use Virtualbox at home.? Works great.? Zero
>     complaints.? I use Vagrant on occasion to control programmatically.
>     >
>     > I started with Virtualbox years ago as it supported older CPUs.?
>     I think somebody on this list turned me on to it.
>     >
>     > Hope that helps.
>     >
>     > Eric C
>     >
>     > Chadbourne.Consulting
>     >
>     >> On Oct 25, 2021, at 2:44 PM, Edward <epp at sillydog.org> wrote:
>     >>
>     >> ?After realizing that I forgot to add the relevant USB hardware
>     to the VM, I deleted it, as they could be not added after the fact.
>     >>
>     >> Upon attempting to recreate it with the USB hardware added in,
>     all attempts were unsuccessful. virt-manager wants the name of the
>     distro during the creation of the VM. Since the name of the distro
>     (PCLinuxOS) was not in the database, I tried all four of the
>     'Generic' entries, the latest Mandriva (EOL) entry (2011) since
>     the distro was originally based on Mandriva), Clear Linux, Arch
>     Linux and finally Ubuntu.
>     >>
>     >> None of these would boot the image into a usable live desktop
>     to which the OS could then be installed. The image either crashed
>     within the VM, it froze on the screen to select the keyboard, or
>     IF the desktop appeared, once a second Network Manager applet icon
>     appeared, the video server crashes and reboots the desktop,
>     repeatedly. The only way to exit was to use virt-manager's Force
>     Off option.
>     >>
>     >> So I have reached the conclusion, that, in a home environment,
>     a VM serves no useful purpose and is quite frankly, a waste of
>     time, IMHO.
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     Discuss mailing list
>     Discuss at lists.blu.org
>     http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>
>
>
> -- 
> --
> Jerry Feldman <gaf.linux at gmail.com>
> Boston Linux and Unix
> PGP key id: 6F6BB6E7
> Key fingerprint: 0EDC 2FF5 53A6 8EED 84D1? 3050 5715 B88D 6F6B B6E7


From gaf.linux at gmail.com  Mon Oct 25 16:37:01 2021
From: gaf.linux at gmail.com (Jerry Feldman)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2021 16:37:01 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] Virt-Manager
In-Reply-To: <9f5a1adb-9966-765c-4997-dc983afd482c@sillydog.org>
References: <8c19db84-9c80-2bde-72ca-bdc31288b267@sillydog.org>
 <E8B14920-05D5-4E9F-A629-CFEB5CCD1483@icloud.com>
 <7bf7aa22-c0a5-ca9d-e04b-3db3508f2aa3@sillydog.org>
 <CAEvgogHJOFNNpHhvuMesQbO3GM7q+=+qoL8ypn8k74MjfeQw8Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <9f5a1adb-9966-765c-4997-dc983afd482c@sillydog.org>
Message-ID: <CAEvgogFMKanGTnJBDmk+UsQ4Ukwm1ivxK3LsHKDcjPaHJaNRgw@mail.gmail.com>

I downloaded and installed community-pclinuxos64-lxqt-2021.10.iso according
to the same steps I did in my previous post.

I don't understand what Ed means when "I added in the USB hardware to
create the vm"

I just took the standard defaults. I then inserted a USB stick, and it gave
me the standard dialog within the PCLINUXOS VM




On Mon, Oct 25, 2021 at 4:00 PM Edward <epp at sillydog.org> wrote:

> You may be interested to know that the LXQt PCLOS image contains
> download managers for VIrtual Box and Libre Office. I think it has one
> or two others as well.
>
> Generic Linux 2020, in fact, *none* of the Generlc entries successfully
> worked once I added in the USB hardware to create the vm. Without the
> USB hardware, it originally installed fine. But AFAIK, you can't add the
> USB hardware*after the fact* with virt-manager. So when recreating the
> vm with USB afterwards, that's when I had the problems.
>
>
> On 10/25/21 15:51, Jerry Feldman wrote:
> > You have to download Virtiualbox from virtualbox.org
> > <http://virtualbox.org>.
> > I just installed pclinuxos kde using virt-manager successfully
> > First, I set it as "Generic Linux 2020"
> > I booted into the LiveCD. Once that came up, I then installed PCLINUXOS.
> > After it installed, I shut down the LiveCD vm and booted pclinuxos. It
> > came up fine, and networking was working.
> > I'm not sure what issues that the OP has, but this is what worked for me.
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Oct 25, 2021 at 3:20 PM Edward <epp at sillydog.org> wrote:
> >
> >     Debian does not provide VirtualBox. They only offer virt-manager and
> >     Gnome Boxes.
> >
> >     The system basically wants to install most (if not all) of the same
> >     dependencies for Gnome Boxes, that it did for virt-manager. When I
> >     was
> >     using Fedora, Jerry told me about Gnome Boxes and I found it very
> >     easy
> >     to use. But given my experience with virt-manager, I would expect the
> >     same issues if I tried Gnome Boxes.
> >
> >     I went with PCLOS' Community LXQt image because I'm used to that
> >     desktop
> >     and it's lightweight, wasn't expecting any issues
> >     running/installing it
> >     in a VM.
> >
> >
> >
> >     On 10/25/21 14:55, Eric Chadbourne wrote:
> >     > As an alternative I use Virtualbox at home.  Works great.  Zero
> >     complaints.  I use Vagrant on occasion to control programmatically.
> >     >
> >     > I started with Virtualbox years ago as it supported older CPUs.
> >     I think somebody on this list turned me on to it.
> >     >
> >     > Hope that helps.
> >     >
> >     > Eric C
> >     >
> >     > Chadbourne.Consulting
> >     >
> >     >> On Oct 25, 2021, at 2:44 PM, Edward <epp at sillydog.org> wrote:
> >     >>
> >     >> ?After realizing that I forgot to add the relevant USB hardware
> >     to the VM, I deleted it, as they could be not added after the fact.
> >     >>
> >     >> Upon attempting to recreate it with the USB hardware added in,
> >     all attempts were unsuccessful. virt-manager wants the name of the
> >     distro during the creation of the VM. Since the name of the distro
> >     (PCLinuxOS) was not in the database, I tried all four of the
> >     'Generic' entries, the latest Mandriva (EOL) entry (2011) since
> >     the distro was originally based on Mandriva), Clear Linux, Arch
> >     Linux and finally Ubuntu.
> >     >>
> >     >> None of these would boot the image into a usable live desktop
> >     to which the OS could then be installed. The image either crashed
> >     within the VM, it froze on the screen to select the keyboard, or
> >     IF the desktop appeared, once a second Network Manager applet icon
> >     appeared, the video server crashes and reboots the desktop,
> >     repeatedly. The only way to exit was to use virt-manager's Force
> >     Off option.
> >     >>
> >     >> So I have reached the conclusion, that, in a home environment,
> >     a VM serves no useful purpose and is quite frankly, a waste of
> >     time, IMHO.
> >
> >     _______________________________________________
> >     Discuss mailing list
> >     Discuss at lists.blu.org
> >     http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > --
> > Jerry Feldman <gaf.linux at gmail.com>
> > Boston Linux and Unix
> > PGP key id: 6F6BB6E7
> > Key fingerprint: 0EDC 2FF5 53A6 8EED 84D1  3050 5715 B88D 6F6B B6E7
>
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss at lists.blu.org
> http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>


-- 
--
Jerry Feldman <gaf.linux at gmail.com>
Boston Linux and Unix
PGP key id: 6F6BB6E7
Key fingerprint: 0EDC 2FF5 53A6 8EED 84D1  3050 5715 B88D 6F6B B6E7

From markw at mohawksoft.com  Mon Oct 25 16:46:47 2021
From: markw at mohawksoft.com (markw at mohawksoft.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2021 16:46:47 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] Virt-Manager
In-Reply-To: <9f5a1adb-9966-765c-4997-dc983afd482c@sillydog.org>
References: <8c19db84-9c80-2bde-72ca-bdc31288b267@sillydog.org>
 <E8B14920-05D5-4E9F-A629-CFEB5CCD1483@icloud.com>
 <7bf7aa22-c0a5-ca9d-e04b-3db3508f2aa3@sillydog.org>
 <CAEvgogHJOFNNpHhvuMesQbO3GM7q+=+qoL8ypn8k74MjfeQw8Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <9f5a1adb-9966-765c-4997-dc983afd482c@sillydog.org>
Message-ID: <82e25df32ff1b0e60a24065400813d79.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>

I uploaded an image of it running in my KVM window.

The Video QXL driver seems like its weird. Select VirtIO instead by
clicking the "Customize installation configuration" box before you create
the VM.

Also, don't use generic, use fedora31 or debian 10 as the base.

> You may be interested to know that the LXQt PCLOS image contains
> download managers for VIrtual Box and Libre Office. I think it has one
> or two others as well.
>
> Generic Linux 2020, in fact, *none* of the Generlc entries successfully
> worked once I added in the USB hardware to create the vm. Without the
> USB hardware, it originally installed fine. But AFAIK, you can't add the
> USB hardware*after the fact* with virt-manager. So when recreating the
> vm with USB afterwards, that's when I had the problems.
>
>
> On 10/25/21 15:51, Jerry Feldman wrote:
>> You??have to download Virtiualbox from virtualbox.org
>> <http://virtualbox.org>.
>> I just??installed??pclinuxos kde using virt-manager successfully
>> First, I set it as "Generic Linux 2020"
>> I booted into the LiveCD. Once that came up, I then installed PCLINUXOS.
>> After it installed, I shut down the LiveCD vm and booted pclinuxos. It
>> came up fine, and networking was working.
>> I'm not sure what issues that the OP has, but this is what??worked for
>> me.
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 25, 2021 at 3:20 PM Edward <epp at sillydog.org> wrote:
>>
>>     Debian does not provide VirtualBox. They only offer virt-manager and
>>     Gnome Boxes.
>>
>>     The system basically wants to install most (if not all) of the same
>>     dependencies for Gnome Boxes, that it did for virt-manager. When I
>>     was
>>     using Fedora, Jerry told me about Gnome Boxes and I found it very
>>     easy
>>     to use. But given my experience with virt-manager, I would expect
>> the
>>     same issues if I tried Gnome Boxes.
>>
>>     I went with PCLOS' Community LXQt image because I'm used to that
>>     desktop
>>     and it's lightweight, wasn't expecting any issues
>>     running/installing it
>>     in a VM.
>>
>>
>>
>>     On 10/25/21 14:55, Eric Chadbourne wrote:
>>     > As an alternative I use Virtualbox at home.?? Works great.?? Zero
>>     complaints.?? I use Vagrant on occasion to control programmatically.
>>     >
>>     > I started with Virtualbox years ago as it supported older CPUs.??
>>     I think somebody on this list turned me on to it.
>>     >
>>     > Hope that helps.
>>     >
>>     > Eric C
>>     >
>>     > Chadbourne.Consulting
>>     >
>>     >> On Oct 25, 2021, at 2:44 PM, Edward <epp at sillydog.org> wrote:
>>     >>
>>     >> ???After realizing that I forgot to add the relevant USB hardware
>>     to the VM, I deleted it, as they could be not added after the fact.
>>     >>
>>     >> Upon attempting to recreate it with the USB hardware added in,
>>     all attempts were unsuccessful. virt-manager wants the name of the
>>     distro during the creation of the VM. Since the name of the distro
>>     (PCLinuxOS) was not in the database, I tried all four of the
>>     'Generic' entries, the latest Mandriva (EOL) entry (2011) since
>>     the distro was originally based on Mandriva), Clear Linux, Arch
>>     Linux and finally Ubuntu.
>>     >>
>>     >> None of these would boot the image into a usable live desktop
>>     to which the OS could then be installed. The image either crashed
>>     within the VM, it froze on the screen to select the keyboard, or
>>     IF the desktop appeared, once a second Network Manager applet icon
>>     appeared, the video server crashes and reboots the desktop,
>>     repeatedly. The only way to exit was to use virt-manager's Force
>>     Off option.
>>     >>
>>     >> So I have reached the conclusion, that, in a home environment,
>>     a VM serves no useful purpose and is quite frankly, a waste of
>>     time, IMHO.
>>
>>     _______________________________________________
>>     Discuss mailing list
>>     Discuss at lists.blu.org
>>     http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> --
>> Jerry Feldman <gaf.linux at gmail.com>
>> Boston Linux and Unix
>> PGP key id: 6F6BB6E7
>> Key fingerprint: 0EDC 2FF5 53A6 8EED 84D1?? 3050 5715 B88D 6F6B B6E7
>
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss at lists.blu.org
> http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>



From greg at freephile.com  Mon Oct 25 17:08:34 2021
From: greg at freephile.com (Greg Rundlett (freephile))
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2021 17:08:34 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] VirutalBox VMs on NVME?
Message-ID: <CANaytcfV9WQT-v_JJVa9rR628XJbE+Bu8P5MyeS5RtfbEEhcGw@mail.gmail.com>

I recently purchased a 500GB NVMe memory stick and put it into an enclosure
with a USB-C interface.  The idea was to format half NTFS (for Windows) and
the other half EXT4 (or similar) so that I could create two VMs out of my
old physical Windoze machine and my old Ubuntu workstation. Assuming that
is possible, the idea is that I'd be able to plug the thing into my MacBook
(having VirtualBox), and be able to use my Linux and Windows machines (as
VMs in VirtualBox).

Is this possible? Any suggestions?

Best regards,

Greg

From markw at mohawksoft.com  Mon Oct 25 17:22:22 2021
From: markw at mohawksoft.com (markw at mohawksoft.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2021 17:22:22 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] VirutalBox VMs on NVME?
In-Reply-To: <CANaytcfV9WQT-v_JJVa9rR628XJbE+Bu8P5MyeS5RtfbEEhcGw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANaytcfV9WQT-v_JJVa9rR628XJbE+Bu8P5MyeS5RtfbEEhcGw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f9ae2ef30907aed5c426c28da3e73606.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>

Does virtualbox allow images in raw format? I recall having issues with it
on my company mac.

I find VirtualBox too limited, if you are on a Windows box, try HyperV, if
you are on Mac, use VMware's Mac product (not sure I know what its called
these days.)

If you run Linux, KVM/QEMU is the way to go.


> I recently purchased a 500GB NVMe memory stick and put it into an
> enclosure
> with a USB-C interface.  The idea was to format half NTFS (for Windows)
> and
> the other half EXT4 (or similar) so that I could create two VMs out of my
> old physical Windoze machine and my old Ubuntu workstation. Assuming that
> is possible, the idea is that I'd be able to plug the thing into my
> MacBook
> (having VirtualBox), and be able to use my Linux and Windows machines (as
> VMs in VirtualBox).
>
> Is this possible? Any suggestions?
>
> Best regards,
>
> Greg
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss at lists.blu.org
> http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>



From epp at sillydog.org  Mon Oct 25 17:53:03 2021
From: epp at sillydog.org (Edward)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2021 17:53:03 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] Virt-Manager
In-Reply-To: <82e25df32ff1b0e60a24065400813d79.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
References: <8c19db84-9c80-2bde-72ca-bdc31288b267@sillydog.org>
 <E8B14920-05D5-4E9F-A629-CFEB5CCD1483@icloud.com>
 <7bf7aa22-c0a5-ca9d-e04b-3db3508f2aa3@sillydog.org>
 <CAEvgogHJOFNNpHhvuMesQbO3GM7q+=+qoL8ypn8k74MjfeQw8Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <9f5a1adb-9966-765c-4997-dc983afd482c@sillydog.org>
 <82e25df32ff1b0e60a24065400813d79.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
Message-ID: <7e963b41-d4d8-f668-48cb-85cb07d4c647@sillydog.org>

Mark - Thanks for the info re Fedora 31/Debian 10 and VirtIO. Very much 
appreciated.

I used Fedora 31 to create it and this time, it successfully booted into 
the Live DVD and also with a subsequent installation to the VM. Although 
when it boots up each time, I am seeing a window that the X server 
failed to start, but it eventually starts and brings me to the login screen.

In regards to Jerry's question regarding my adding the USB hardware, 
using virt-manager: when creating the VM, on the screen 'Create a new 
virtual machine' (Step 5 of 5), there is a checkbox labeled 'Customize 
configuration before install'. Checking this box will take you to 
another screen that lists all of the items on the left that will be 
installed by default, there is a button at the bottom of that window 
'Add Hardware', select that. The next screen lists the hardware that can 
be added. The USB items (Bluetooth, printer, mouse, etc.) are on USB 
Host Device. Click on one of them, then click Finish, that adds it to 
the list on the left. This last step is repeated for each USB device you 
want to add to the VM.


On 10/25/21 16:46, markw at mohawksoft.com wrote:
> I uploaded an image of it running in my KVM window.
>
> The Video QXL driver seems like its weird. Select VirtIO instead by
> clicking the "Customize installation configuration" box before you create
> the VM.
>
> Also, don't use generic, use fedora31 or debian 10 as the base.


From gaf.linux at gmail.com  Mon Oct 25 17:59:59 2021
From: gaf.linux at gmail.com (Jerry Feldman)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2021 17:59:59 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] Virt-Manager
In-Reply-To: <7e963b41-d4d8-f668-48cb-85cb07d4c647@sillydog.org>
References: <8c19db84-9c80-2bde-72ca-bdc31288b267@sillydog.org>
 <E8B14920-05D5-4E9F-A629-CFEB5CCD1483@icloud.com>
 <7bf7aa22-c0a5-ca9d-e04b-3db3508f2aa3@sillydog.org>
 <CAEvgogHJOFNNpHhvuMesQbO3GM7q+=+qoL8ypn8k74MjfeQw8Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <9f5a1adb-9966-765c-4997-dc983afd482c@sillydog.org>
 <82e25df32ff1b0e60a24065400813d79.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
 <7e963b41-d4d8-f668-48cb-85cb07d4c647@sillydog.org>
Message-ID: <CAEvgogFsOyRjvmJ4UtVeO_ioqTctx2cwD7iWxy1JbkVvR9accA@mail.gmail.com>

You may not want to do that
You want the host to handle keyboard and mouse. You notice when the cursor
is in the vm, keystrokes go to the vm, but when you move the mouse out of
the vm, keystrokes go to the host.

--
Jerry Feldman <gaf.linux at gmail.com>
Boston Linux and Unix http://www.blu.org
PGP key id: 6F6BB6E7
PGP Key fingerprint: 0EDC 2FF5 53A6 8EED 84D1  3050 5715 B88D 6F6
B B6E7

On Mon, Oct 25, 2021, 5:55 PM Edward <epp at sillydog.org> wrote:

> Mark - Thanks for the info re Fedora 31/Debian 10 and VirtIO. Very much
> appreciated.
>
> I used Fedora 31 to create it and this time, it successfully booted into
> the Live DVD and also with a subsequent installation to the VM. Although
> when it boots up each time, I am seeing a window that the X server
> failed to start, but it eventually starts and brings me to the login
> screen.
>
> In regards to Jerry's question regarding my adding the USB hardware,
> using virt-manager: when creating the VM, on the screen 'Create a new
> virtual machine' (Step 5 of 5), there is a checkbox labeled 'Customize
> configuration before install'. Checking this box will take you to
> another screen that lists all of the items on the left that will be
> installed by default, there is a button at the bottom of that window
> 'Add Hardware', select that. The next screen lists the hardware that can
> be added. The USB items (Bluetooth, printer, mouse, etc.) are on USB
> Host Device. Click on one of them, then click Finish, that adds it to
> the list on the left. This last step is repeated for each USB device you
> want to add to the VM.
>
>
> On 10/25/21 16:46, markw at mohawksoft.com wrote:
> > I uploaded an image of it running in my KVM window.
> >
> > The Video QXL driver seems like its weird. Select VirtIO instead by
> > clicking the "Customize installation configuration" box before you create
> > the VM.
> >
> > Also, don't use generic, use fedora31 or debian 10 as the base.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss at lists.blu.org
> http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>

From markw at mohawksoft.com  Mon Oct 25 18:01:58 2021
From: markw at mohawksoft.com (markw at mohawksoft.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2021 18:01:58 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] Virt-Manager
In-Reply-To: <7e963b41-d4d8-f668-48cb-85cb07d4c647@sillydog.org>
References: <8c19db84-9c80-2bde-72ca-bdc31288b267@sillydog.org>
 <E8B14920-05D5-4E9F-A629-CFEB5CCD1483@icloud.com>
 <7bf7aa22-c0a5-ca9d-e04b-3db3508f2aa3@sillydog.org>
 <CAEvgogHJOFNNpHhvuMesQbO3GM7q+=+qoL8ypn8k74MjfeQw8Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <9f5a1adb-9966-765c-4997-dc983afd482c@sillydog.org>
 <82e25df32ff1b0e60a24065400813d79.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
 <7e963b41-d4d8-f668-48cb-85cb07d4c647@sillydog.org>
Message-ID: <a33cd52f8df58bcf3603ca1c49b0ea21.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>

You should be able to add/remove/modify hardware on any VM, if it is
running, some things may be grayed out. Try shutting down first.

Yea, the video on the PCLinux thing is kind of weird. I'm 99% sure its an
X configuration setting they are using on their desktop.


> Mark - Thanks for the info re Fedora 31/Debian 10 and VirtIO. Very much
> appreciated.
>
> I used Fedora 31 to create it and this time, it successfully booted into
> the Live DVD and also with a subsequent installation to the VM. Although
> when it boots up each time, I am seeing a window that the X server
> failed to start, but it eventually starts and brings me to the login
> screen.
>
> In regards to Jerry's question regarding my adding the USB hardware,
> using virt-manager: when creating the VM, on the screen 'Create a new
> virtual machine' (Step 5 of 5), there is a checkbox labeled 'Customize
> configuration before install'. Checking this box will take you to
> another screen that lists all of the items on the left that will be
> installed by default, there is a button at the bottom of that window
> 'Add Hardware', select that. The next screen lists the hardware that can
> be added. The USB items (Bluetooth, printer, mouse, etc.) are on USB
> Host Device. Click on one of them, then click Finish, that adds it to
> the list on the left. This last step is repeated for each USB device you
> want to add to the VM.
>
>
> On 10/25/21 16:46, markw at mohawksoft.com wrote:
>> I uploaded an image of it running in my KVM window.
>>
>> The Video QXL driver seems like its weird. Select VirtIO instead by
>> clicking the "Customize installation configuration" box before you
>> create
>> the VM.
>>
>> Also, don't use generic, use fedora31 or debian 10 as the base.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss at lists.blu.org
> http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>



From richard.pieri at gmail.com  Mon Oct 25 18:15:24 2021
From: richard.pieri at gmail.com (Rich Pieri)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2021 18:15:24 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] VirutalBox VMs on NVME?
In-Reply-To: <CANaytcfV9WQT-v_JJVa9rR628XJbE+Bu8P5MyeS5RtfbEEhcGw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANaytcfV9WQT-v_JJVa9rR628XJbE+Bu8P5MyeS5RtfbEEhcGw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20211025181524.0000629c.Richard.Pieri@gmail.com>

On Mon, 25 Oct 2021 17:08:34 -0400
"Greg Rundlett (freephile)" <greg at freephile.com> wrote:

> Ubuntu workstation. Assuming that is possible, the idea is that I'd
> be able to plug the thing into my MacBook (having VirtualBox), and be
> able to use my Linux and Windows machines (as VMs in VirtualBox).
> 
> Is this possible? Any suggestions?

I used to do something similar with VirtualBox before switching to
Hyper-V (which IMO is vastly superior to VBox).

A few caveats:

First is that you wasted your money on that NVMe drive and enclosure.
Even though the most recent USB 3.2 revisions have the theoretical
throughput, I/O running through VirtualBox's stack and the host OS
will tank performance. This is not to say the VMs wouldn't be usable.
You simply won't get anywhere near the performance you paid for.

Second is that raw partitions is a pain. Different host OS, different
way to identify devices. Bite the bullet and just use an image file for
data. You lose almost nothing in terms of performance (the bottleneck
is the host OS and hypervisor, not the drive I/O) while gaining host
portability.

Third is that if you're on Apple Silicon then you are kind of SOL
because ARM64. Can't virtualize x86 on ARM. Currently no plans for
VirtualBox running on Apple Silicon. VMware Fusion is ARM64 VMs only;
no x86 at all. QEMU can emulate x86 but it's slow.

-- 
\m/ (--) \m/

From eric.chadbourne at icloud.com  Mon Oct 25 18:28:37 2021
From: eric.chadbourne at icloud.com (Eric Chadbourne)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2021 18:28:37 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] VirutalBox VMs on NVME?
In-Reply-To: <f9ae2ef30907aed5c426c28da3e73606.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
References: <f9ae2ef30907aed5c426c28da3e73606.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
Message-ID: <5EF0EEAE-5B89-42B2-AEFF-DC006AF249ED@icloud.com>

https://www.virtualbox.org/manual/UserManual.html#rawdisk

Eric C

> On Oct 25, 2021, at 5:23 PM, markw at mohawksoft.com wrote:
> 
> ?Does virtualbox allow images in raw format? I recall having issues with it
> on my company mac.
> 
> I find VirtualBox too limited, if you are on a Windows box, try HyperV, if
> you are on Mac, use VMware's Mac product (not sure I know what its called
> these days.)
> 
> If you run Linux, KVM/QEMU is the way to go.
> 
> 
>> I recently purchased a 500GB NVMe memory stick and put it into an
>> enclosure
>> with a USB-C interface.  The idea was to format half NTFS (for Windows)
>> and
>> the other half EXT4 (or similar) so that I could create two VMs out of my
>> old physical Windoze machine and my old Ubuntu workstation. Assuming that
>> is possible, the idea is that I'd be able to plug the thing into my
>> MacBook
>> (having VirtualBox), and be able to use my Linux and Windows machines (as
>> VMs in VirtualBox).
>> 
>> Is this possible? Any suggestions?
>> 
>> Best regards,
>> 
>> Greg
>> _______________________________________________
>> Discuss mailing list
>> Discuss at lists.blu.org
>> http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss at lists.blu.org
> http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss

From epp at sillydog.org  Mon Oct 25 19:24:44 2021
From: epp at sillydog.org (Edward)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2021 19:24:44 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] Virt-Manager
In-Reply-To: <a33cd52f8df58bcf3603ca1c49b0ea21.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
References: <8c19db84-9c80-2bde-72ca-bdc31288b267@sillydog.org>
 <E8B14920-05D5-4E9F-A629-CFEB5CCD1483@icloud.com>
 <7bf7aa22-c0a5-ca9d-e04b-3db3508f2aa3@sillydog.org>
 <CAEvgogHJOFNNpHhvuMesQbO3GM7q+=+qoL8ypn8k74MjfeQw8Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <9f5a1adb-9966-765c-4997-dc983afd482c@sillydog.org>
 <82e25df32ff1b0e60a24065400813d79.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
 <7e963b41-d4d8-f668-48cb-85cb07d4c647@sillydog.org>
 <a33cd52f8df58bcf3603ca1c49b0ea21.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
Message-ID: <5ebf9e83-168a-82c4-9be9-9ceb99bb8ed3@sillydog.org>

I don't recall seeing anything previously that allows me to modify the 
VM, but I will check again.

I also succeeded in installing the Lubuntu 21.10 image to another VM, 
used Debian 10 at the beginning. The big question here was with 
Bluetooth, I added it per the steps in my previous e-mail. Lubuntu 20.04 
LTS was able to detect and play music through BT headphones right out of 
the gate, but 21.10 initially did not even see the Bluetooth dongle, 
though it does now. There is a package at GitHub for the specific 
Broadcom model of BT USB dongle I have and once that package was 
installed on 21.10, BlueDevil found the headphones and the music comes 
in nice and clear. Very pleased.

Using VirtIO for the video instead of the default setting, seems to be a 
better choice overall.

Maybe VM's aren't a waste of time after all.? ?


On 10/25/21 18:01, markw at mohawksoft.com wrote:
> You should be able to add/remove/modify hardware on any VM, if it is
> running, some things may be grayed out. Try shutting down first.
>
> Yea, the video on the PCLinux thing is kind of weird. I'm 99% sure its an
> X configuration setting they are using on their desktop.


From gaf.linux at gmail.com  Mon Oct 25 19:30:24 2021
From: gaf.linux at gmail.com (Jerry Feldman)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2021 19:30:24 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] Virt-Manager
In-Reply-To: <5ebf9e83-168a-82c4-9be9-9ceb99bb8ed3@sillydog.org>
References: <8c19db84-9c80-2bde-72ca-bdc31288b267@sillydog.org>
 <E8B14920-05D5-4E9F-A629-CFEB5CCD1483@icloud.com>
 <7bf7aa22-c0a5-ca9d-e04b-3db3508f2aa3@sillydog.org>
 <CAEvgogHJOFNNpHhvuMesQbO3GM7q+=+qoL8ypn8k74MjfeQw8Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <9f5a1adb-9966-765c-4997-dc983afd482c@sillydog.org>
 <82e25df32ff1b0e60a24065400813d79.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
 <7e963b41-d4d8-f668-48cb-85cb07d4c647@sillydog.org>
 <a33cd52f8df58bcf3603ca1c49b0ea21.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
 <5ebf9e83-168a-82c4-9be9-9ceb99bb8ed3@sillydog.org>
Message-ID: <CAEvgogHw6MgZE0FGj38eAFbBHdrXwqfBF3p2xmB0CLPCO9ehFg@mail.gmail.com>

The vm parameters are in an xml. You can use the virsh command to do a lot
more stuff, like rename your vm.

--
Jerry Feldman <gaf.linux at gmail.com>
Boston Linux and Unix http://www.blu.org
PGP key id: 6F6BB6E7
PGP Key fingerprint: 0EDC 2FF5 53A6 8EED 84D1  3050 5715 B88D 6F6
B B6E7

On Mon, Oct 25, 2021, 7:26 PM Edward <epp at sillydog.org> wrote:

> I don't recall seeing anything previously that allows me to modify the
> VM, but I will check again.
>
> I also succeeded in installing the Lubuntu 21.10 image to another VM,
> used Debian 10 at the beginning. The big question here was with
> Bluetooth, I added it per the steps in my previous e-mail. Lubuntu 20.04
> LTS was able to detect and play music through BT headphones right out of
> the gate, but 21.10 initially did not even see the Bluetooth dongle,
> though it does now. There is a package at GitHub for the specific
> Broadcom model of BT USB dongle I have and once that package was
> installed on 21.10, BlueDevil found the headphones and the music comes
> in nice and clear. Very pleased.
>
> Using VirtIO for the video instead of the default setting, seems to be a
> better choice overall.
>
> Maybe VM's aren't a waste of time after all.  ?
>
>
> On 10/25/21 18:01, markw at mohawksoft.com wrote:
> > You should be able to add/remove/modify hardware on any VM, if it is
> > running, some things may be grayed out. Try shutting down first.
> >
> > Yea, the video on the PCLinux thing is kind of weird. I'm 99% sure its an
> > X configuration setting they are using on their desktop.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss at lists.blu.org
> http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>

From markw at mohawksoft.com  Mon Oct 25 20:05:29 2021
From: markw at mohawksoft.com (markw at mohawksoft.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2021 20:05:29 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] VirutalBox VMs on NVME?
In-Reply-To: <5EF0EEAE-5B89-42B2-AEFF-DC006AF249ED@icloud.com>
References: <f9ae2ef30907aed5c426c28da3e73606.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
 <5EF0EEAE-5B89-42B2-AEFF-DC006AF249ED@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <84d08fe908c8a3dacd57204d5b2bcf34.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>

Yup, that was my problem. It won't use a raw file. It will only work on
partitions or hard disks. Which, IMHO, is just stupid.

> https://www.virtualbox.org/manual/UserManual.html#rawdisk
>
> Eric C
>
>> On Oct 25, 2021, at 5:23 PM, markw at mohawksoft.com wrote:
>>
>> ???Does virtualbox allow images in raw format? I recall having issues
>> with it
>> on my company mac.
>>
>> I find VirtualBox too limited, if you are on a Windows box, try HyperV,
>> if
>> you are on Mac, use VMware's Mac product (not sure I know what its
>> called
>> these days.)
>>
>> If you run Linux, KVM/QEMU is the way to go.
>>
>>
>>> I recently purchased a 500GB NVMe memory stick and put it into an
>>> enclosure
>>> with a USB-C interface.  The idea was to format half NTFS (for Windows)
>>> and
>>> the other half EXT4 (or similar) so that I could create two VMs out of
>>> my
>>> old physical Windoze machine and my old Ubuntu workstation. Assuming
>>> that
>>> is possible, the idea is that I'd be able to plug the thing into my
>>> MacBook
>>> (having VirtualBox), and be able to use my Linux and Windows machines
>>> (as
>>> VMs in VirtualBox).
>>>
>>> Is this possible? Any suggestions?
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> Greg
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Discuss mailing list
>>> Discuss at lists.blu.org
>>> http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Discuss mailing list
>> Discuss at lists.blu.org
>> http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss at lists.blu.org
> http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>



From markw at mohawksoft.com  Mon Oct 25 20:10:16 2021
From: markw at mohawksoft.com (markw at mohawksoft.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2021 20:10:16 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] Virt-Manager
In-Reply-To: <CAEvgogHw6MgZE0FGj38eAFbBHdrXwqfBF3p2xmB0CLPCO9ehFg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8c19db84-9c80-2bde-72ca-bdc31288b267@sillydog.org>
 <E8B14920-05D5-4E9F-A629-CFEB5CCD1483@icloud.com>
 <7bf7aa22-c0a5-ca9d-e04b-3db3508f2aa3@sillydog.org>
 <CAEvgogHJOFNNpHhvuMesQbO3GM7q+=+qoL8ypn8k74MjfeQw8Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <9f5a1adb-9966-765c-4997-dc983afd482c@sillydog.org>
 <82e25df32ff1b0e60a24065400813d79.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
 <7e963b41-d4d8-f668-48cb-85cb07d4c647@sillydog.org>
 <a33cd52f8df58bcf3603ca1c49b0ea21.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
 <5ebf9e83-168a-82c4-9be9-9ceb99bb8ed3@sillydog.org>
 <CAEvgogHw6MgZE0FGj38eAFbBHdrXwqfBF3p2xmB0CLPCO9ehFg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3069e94be9a248b7d36866bd719c646d.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>

With virt-manager, you can open a window for a VM, select "View->Details"
and show all the settings and it allows you to edit them. Also, if you
don't see a setting in the window, you can click on "XML" and edit the XML
stanza for the feature directly.

With libvirt and virt-manager, the machine definitions are stored in
/etc/libvirt/qemu/*.xml


> The vm parameters are in an xml. You can use the virsh command to do a lot
> more stuff, like rename your vm.
>
> --
> Jerry Feldman <gaf.linux at gmail.com>
> Boston Linux and Unix http://www.blu.org
> PGP key id: 6F6BB6E7
> PGP Key fingerprint: 0EDC 2FF5 53A6 8EED 84D1  3050 5715 B88D 6F6
> B B6E7
>
> On Mon, Oct 25, 2021, 7:26 PM Edward <epp at sillydog.org> wrote:
>
>> I don't recall seeing anything previously that allows me to modify the
>> VM, but I will check again.
>>
>> I also succeeded in installing the Lubuntu 21.10 image to another VM,
>> used Debian 10 at the beginning. The big question here was with
>> Bluetooth, I added it per the steps in my previous e-mail. Lubuntu 20.04
>> LTS was able to detect and play music through BT headphones right out of
>> the gate, but 21.10 initially did not even see the Bluetooth dongle,
>> though it does now. There is a package at GitHub for the specific
>> Broadcom model of BT USB dongle I have and once that package was
>> installed on 21.10, BlueDevil found the headphones and the music comes
>> in nice and clear. Very pleased.
>>
>> Using VirtIO for the video instead of the default setting, seems to be a
>> better choice overall.
>>
>> Maybe VM's aren't a waste of time after all.  ????
>>
>>
>> On 10/25/21 18:01, markw at mohawksoft.com wrote:
>> > You should be able to add/remove/modify hardware on any VM, if it is
>> > running, some things may be grayed out. Try shutting down first.
>> >
>> > Yea, the video on the PCLinux thing is kind of weird. I'm 99% sure its
>> an
>> > X configuration setting they are using on their desktop.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Discuss mailing list
>> Discuss at lists.blu.org
>> http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss at lists.blu.org
> http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>



From epp at sillydog.org  Mon Oct 25 20:49:54 2021
From: epp at sillydog.org (Edward)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2021 20:49:54 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] Virt-Manager
In-Reply-To: <3069e94be9a248b7d36866bd719c646d.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
References: <8c19db84-9c80-2bde-72ca-bdc31288b267@sillydog.org>
 <E8B14920-05D5-4E9F-A629-CFEB5CCD1483@icloud.com>
 <7bf7aa22-c0a5-ca9d-e04b-3db3508f2aa3@sillydog.org>
 <CAEvgogHJOFNNpHhvuMesQbO3GM7q+=+qoL8ypn8k74MjfeQw8Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <9f5a1adb-9966-765c-4997-dc983afd482c@sillydog.org>
 <82e25df32ff1b0e60a24065400813d79.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
 <7e963b41-d4d8-f668-48cb-85cb07d4c647@sillydog.org>
 <a33cd52f8df58bcf3603ca1c49b0ea21.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
 <5ebf9e83-168a-82c4-9be9-9ceb99bb8ed3@sillydog.org>
 <CAEvgogHw6MgZE0FGj38eAFbBHdrXwqfBF3p2xmB0CLPCO9ehFg@mail.gmail.com>
 <3069e94be9a248b7d36866bd719c646d.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
Message-ID: <b6ca791a-7c1e-9ce6-f0f4-ce36b8f8b2ca@sillydog.org>

Thanks again for this info. Good to know. Looked at it and will remove 
the mouse, which apparently isn't needed for a VM, the host handles it 
and the keyboard.


On 10/25/21 20:10, markw at mohawksoft.com wrote:
> With virt-manager, you can open a window for a VM, select "View->Details"
> and show all the settings and it allows you to edit them. Also, if you
> don't see a setting in the window, you can click on "XML" and edit the XML
> stanza for the feature directly.
>
> With libvirt and virt-manager, the machine definitions are stored in
> /etc/libvirt/qemu/*.xml

From eric.chadbourne at icloud.com  Mon Oct 25 20:51:46 2021
From: eric.chadbourne at icloud.com (Eric Chadbourne)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2021 20:51:46 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] VirutalBox VMs on NVME?
In-Reply-To: <84d08fe908c8a3dacd57204d5b2bcf34.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
References: <84d08fe908c8a3dacd57204d5b2bcf34.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
Message-ID: <298A80AF-9EA5-4790-970E-5411A14DE76B@icloud.com>

Yeah that?s interesting.  I?ve not needed the functionality yet but good to know.

I found Richard?s comments quiet valuable as well. 

Learn something everyday, hopefully.  

Eric C


> On Oct 25, 2021, at 8:40 PM, markw at mohawksoft.com wrote:
> 
> ?Yup, that was my problem. It won't use a raw file. It will only work on
> partitions or hard disks. Which, IMHO, is just stupid.
> 
>> https://www.virtualbox.org/manual/UserManual.html#rawdisk
>> Eric C
>>>> On Oct 25, 2021, at 5:23 PM, markw at mohawksoft.com wrote:
>>> ?Does virtualbox allow images in raw format? I recall having issues
>>> with it
>>> on my company mac.
>>> I find VirtualBox too limited, if you are on a Windows box, try HyperV,
>>> if
>>> you are on Mac, use VMware's Mac product (not sure I know what its
>>> called
>>> these days.)
>>> If you run Linux, KVM/QEMU is the way to go.
>>>> I recently purchased a 500GB NVMe memory stick and put it into an
>>>> enclosure
>>>> with a USB-C interface.  The idea was to format half NTFS (for Windows)
>>>> and
>>>> the other half EXT4 (or similar) so that I could create two VMs out of
>>>> my
>>>> old physical Windoze machine and my old Ubuntu workstation. Assuming
>>>> that
>>>> is possible, the idea is that I'd be able to plug the thing into my
>>>> MacBook
>>>> (having VirtualBox), and be able to use my Linux and Windows machines
>>>> (as
>>>> VMs in VirtualBox).
>>>> Is this possible? Any suggestions?
>>>> Best regards,
>>>> Greg
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Discuss mailing list
>>>> Discuss at lists.blu.org
>>>> http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Discuss mailing list
>>> Discuss at lists.blu.org
>>> http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>> _______________________________________________
>> Discuss mailing list
>> Discuss at lists.blu.org
>> http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss

From eric.chadbourne at icloud.com  Mon Oct 25 20:57:50 2021
From: eric.chadbourne at icloud.com (Eric Chadbourne)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2021 20:57:50 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] Apple email is yucky
Message-ID: <A1CDE192-F467-486D-AF95-098B8AAC4E8A@icloud.com>

It breaks formatting all the time when replying to this list.  Odd line breaks and such on iOS Mail. 

Apple?s web mail is an abomination.   Not usable.  

Their new CPU sounds nice but I wish they would do other basic things like mail better.  

Eric C


From markw at mohawksoft.com  Mon Oct 25 21:22:07 2021
From: markw at mohawksoft.com (markw at mohawksoft.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2021 21:22:07 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] VirutalBox VMs on NVME?
In-Reply-To: <298A80AF-9EA5-4790-970E-5411A14DE76B@icloud.com>
References: <84d08fe908c8a3dacd57204d5b2bcf34.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
 <298A80AF-9EA5-4790-970E-5411A14DE76B@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <8f0b77e2c26f7a001e346ca002e2b49b.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>

I know I'm coming off like a Linux/QEMU fan boy, but QEMU is really
f&^%king awesome.

Want to make a new drive? Want performance? Want thin provisioned?

touch system.raw
truncate -s 1T system.raw

On Linux, that one TB file takes almost no space if you use EXT[2,3,4],
xfs, zfs, or some number of supported file systems, NOT FAT. Its actually
faster than qcow2. This, surprisingly, doesn't work on Mac because their
file system (last time I looked) didn't support sparse files.

You can use that as a drive to your VM and install into it. I do it all
the time. And, you can mount it on your host system (with a loop-back
device) if something goes wrong and you can't boot.

Plus, "libvirt" allows full scripting and is much easier than VMware.

Our whole build machine strategy at my last company was based on QEMU. We
had Windows, BSD, RedHat, solaris, and HP-UX VMs all running on QEMU.

> Yeah that???s interesting.  I???ve not needed the functionality yet but
> good to know.
>
> I found Richard???s comments quiet valuable as well.
>
> Learn something everyday, hopefully.
>
> Eric C
>
>
>> On Oct 25, 2021, at 8:40 PM, markw at mohawksoft.com wrote:
>>
>> ???Yup, that was my problem. It won't use a raw file. It will only work
>> on
>> partitions or hard disks. Which, IMHO, is just stupid.
>>
>>> https://www.virtualbox.org/manual/UserManual.html#rawdisk
>>> Eric C
>>>>> On Oct 25, 2021, at 5:23 PM, markw at mohawksoft.com wrote:
>>>> ???Does virtualbox allow images in raw format? I recall having issues
>>>> with it
>>>> on my company mac.
>>>> I find VirtualBox too limited, if you are on a Windows box, try
>>>> HyperV,
>>>> if
>>>> you are on Mac, use VMware's Mac product (not sure I know what its
>>>> called
>>>> these days.)
>>>> If you run Linux, KVM/QEMU is the way to go.
>>>>> I recently purchased a 500GB NVMe memory stick and put it into an
>>>>> enclosure
>>>>> with a USB-C interface.  The idea was to format half NTFS (for
>>>>> Windows)
>>>>> and
>>>>> the other half EXT4 (or similar) so that I could create two VMs out
>>>>> of
>>>>> my
>>>>> old physical Windoze machine and my old Ubuntu workstation. Assuming
>>>>> that
>>>>> is possible, the idea is that I'd be able to plug the thing into my
>>>>> MacBook
>>>>> (having VirtualBox), and be able to use my Linux and Windows machines
>>>>> (as
>>>>> VMs in VirtualBox).
>>>>> Is this possible? Any suggestions?
>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>> Greg
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Discuss mailing list
>>>>> Discuss at lists.blu.org
>>>>> http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Discuss mailing list
>>>> Discuss at lists.blu.org
>>>> http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Discuss mailing list
>>> Discuss at lists.blu.org
>>> http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss at lists.blu.org
> http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>



From richard.pieri at gmail.com  Mon Oct 25 21:37:12 2021
From: richard.pieri at gmail.com (Rich Pieri)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2021 21:37:12 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] VirutalBox VMs on NVME?
In-Reply-To: <84d08fe908c8a3dacd57204d5b2bcf34.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
References: <f9ae2ef30907aed5c426c28da3e73606.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
 <5EF0EEAE-5B89-42B2-AEFF-DC006AF249ED@icloud.com>
 <84d08fe908c8a3dacd57204d5b2bcf34.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
Message-ID: <20211025213712.00007893.Richard.Pieri@gmail.com>

On Mon, 25 Oct 2021 20:05:29 -0400
markw at mohawksoft.com wrote:

> Yup, that was my problem. It won't use a raw file. It will only work
> on partitions or hard disks. Which, IMHO, is just stupid.

The entire point of raw device access is to bypass the host filesystem
layer. A file on a host filesystem being treated as a raw device must
be accessed through the host filesystem thus it's not raw I/O any more.

-- 
\m/ (--) \m/

From epp at sillydog.org  Mon Oct 25 21:40:05 2021
From: epp at sillydog.org (Edward)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2021 21:40:05 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] Virt-Manager
In-Reply-To: <a33cd52f8df58bcf3603ca1c49b0ea21.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
References: <8c19db84-9c80-2bde-72ca-bdc31288b267@sillydog.org>
 <E8B14920-05D5-4E9F-A629-CFEB5CCD1483@icloud.com>
 <7bf7aa22-c0a5-ca9d-e04b-3db3508f2aa3@sillydog.org>
 <CAEvgogHJOFNNpHhvuMesQbO3GM7q+=+qoL8ypn8k74MjfeQw8Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <9f5a1adb-9966-765c-4997-dc983afd482c@sillydog.org>
 <82e25df32ff1b0e60a24065400813d79.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
 <7e963b41-d4d8-f668-48cb-85cb07d4c647@sillydog.org>
 <a33cd52f8df58bcf3603ca1c49b0ea21.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
Message-ID: <a4461652-9177-17d1-2e61-34c382c14a4b@sillydog.org>

There is something strange with the PCLOS video. In the VM, the best 
resolution I can get without cutting off the top and/or bottom of the 
window, is 1400x900.


On 10/25/21 18:01, markw at mohawksoft.com wrote:
> You should be able to add/remove/modify hardware on any VM, if it is
> running, some things may be grayed out. Try shutting down first.
>
> Yea, the video on the PCLinux thing is kind of weird. I'm 99% sure its an
> X configuration setting they are using on their desktop.


From epp at sillydog.org  Mon Oct 25 21:42:44 2021
From: epp at sillydog.org (Edward)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2021 21:42:44 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] Apple email is yucky
In-Reply-To: <A1CDE192-F467-486D-AF95-098B8AAC4E8A@icloud.com>
References: <A1CDE192-F467-486D-AF95-098B8AAC4E8A@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <315dd56d-b69b-de66-6917-693cc33262eb@sillydog.org>

I've never had an iPhone, but when I receive mail sent from one, it 
/always/ shows iPhone Mail as the User Agent. Does the Apple store have 
/any/ third-party e-mail apps, or is iPhone Mail, it?


On 10/25/21 20:57, Eric Chadbourne wrote:
> It breaks formatting all the time when replying to this list.  Odd line breaks and such on iOS Mail.
>
> Apple?s web mail is an abomination.   Not usable.
>
> Their new CPU sounds nice but I wish they would do other basic things like mail better.
>
> Eric C


From bobleigh at twomeeps.com  Mon Oct 25 21:54:12 2021
From: bobleigh at twomeeps.com (Bob Leigh)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2021 21:54:12 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] Apple email is yucky
In-Reply-To: <315dd56d-b69b-de66-6917-693cc33262eb@sillydog.org>
References: <A1CDE192-F467-486D-AF95-098B8AAC4E8A@icloud.com>
 <315dd56d-b69b-de66-6917-693cc33262eb@sillydog.org>
Message-ID: <CAKbQ-o7SJmmv_CBE=gbcZmye6e2RtL+-bizQqJNnHT0OXS2SmA@mail.gmail.com>

Well, for starters, there's a Gmail app.

Bob Leigh

On Mon, Oct 25, 2021 at 9:43 PM Edward <epp at sillydog.org> wrote:

> I've never had an iPhone, but when I receive mail sent from one, it
> /always/ shows iPhone Mail as the User Agent. Does the Apple store have
> /any/ third-party e-mail apps, or is iPhone Mail, it?
>
>
> On 10/25/21 20:57, Eric Chadbourne wrote:
> > It breaks formatting all the time when replying to this list.  Odd line
> breaks and such on iOS Mail.
> >
> > Apple?s web mail is an abomination.   Not usable.
> >
> > Their new CPU sounds nice but I wish they would do other basic things
> like mail better.
> >
> > Eric C
>
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss at lists.blu.org
> http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>

From eric.chadbourne at icloud.com  Mon Oct 25 22:03:36 2021
From: eric.chadbourne at icloud.com (Eric Chadbourne)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2021 22:03:36 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] Apple email is yucky
In-Reply-To: <315dd56d-b69b-de66-6917-693cc33262eb@sillydog.org>
References: <315dd56d-b69b-de66-6917-693cc33262eb@sillydog.org>
Message-ID: <5559AD84-F6FC-4C6F-B8B3-E41F7B1F74EE@icloud.com>

Oh yeah other mail apps are available for mobile.  I should try them out.  Suggestions welcome.  

God forbid I want to access mail from my Ubuntu laptop. 

I attempted Thunderbird but kept having sync issues.  

I then tried Apple?s webmail with Firefox and it suffered chronic issues and is incredibly slow.  

Apple recently updated webmail but its still very very bad.  

Eric C


> 
> On Oct 25, 2021, at 9:43 PM, Edward <epp at sillydog.org> wrote:
> 
> ?I've never had an iPhone, but when I receive mail sent from one, it /always/ shows iPhone Mail as the User Agent. Does the Apple store have /any/ third-party e-mail apps, or is iPhone Mail, it?
> 
> 
>> On 10/25/21 20:57, Eric Chadbourne wrote:
>> It breaks formatting all the time when replying to this list.  Odd line breaks and such on iOS Mail.
>> 
>> Apple?s web mail is an abomination.   Not usable.
>> 
>> Their new CPU sounds nice but I wish they would do other basic things like mail better.
>> 
>> Eric C
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss at lists.blu.org
> http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss

From epp at sillydog.org  Mon Oct 25 22:18:10 2021
From: epp at sillydog.org (Edward)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2021 22:18:10 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] Apple email is yucky
In-Reply-To: <5559AD84-F6FC-4C6F-B8B3-E41F7B1F74EE@icloud.com>
References: <315dd56d-b69b-de66-6917-693cc33262eb@sillydog.org>
 <5559AD84-F6FC-4C6F-B8B3-E41F7B1F74EE@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <2ced4c6f-2db9-7803-bfc1-1e7f6363c8c1@sillydog.org>

I would love to see Thunderbird brought over to Android and iPhone.


On 10/25/21 22:03, Eric Chadbourne wrote:
> Oh yeah other mail apps are available for mobile.  I should try them out.  Suggestions welcome.
>
> God forbid I want to access mail from my Ubuntu laptop.
>
> I attempted Thunderbird but kept having sync issues.
>
> I then tried Apple?s webmail with Firefox and it suffered chronic issues and is incredibly slow.
>
> Apple recently updated webmail but its still very very bad.
>
> Eric C
>
>
>> On Oct 25, 2021, at 9:43 PM, Edward <epp at sillydog.org> wrote:
>>
>> ?I've never had an iPhone, but when I receive mail sent from one, it /always/ shows iPhone Mail as the User Agent. Does the Apple store have /any/ third-party e-mail apps, or is iPhone Mail, it?
>>
>>
>>> On 10/25/21 20:57, Eric Chadbourne wrote:
>>> It breaks formatting all the time when replying to this list.  Odd line breaks and such on iOS Mail.
>>>
>>> Apple?s web mail is an abomination.   Not usable.
>>>
>>> Their new CPU sounds nice but I wish they would do other basic things like mail better.
>>>
>>> Eric C


From derek at ihtfp.com  Tue Oct 26 00:09:54 2021
From: derek at ihtfp.com (Derek Atkins)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2021 00:09:54 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] Apple email is yucky
In-Reply-To: <2ced4c6f-2db9-7803-bfc1-1e7f6363c8c1@sillydog.org>
References: <315dd56d-b69b-de66-6917-693cc33262eb@sillydog.org>
 <5559AD84-F6FC-4C6F-B8B3-E41F7B1F74EE@icloud.com>
 <2ced4c6f-2db9-7803-bfc1-1e7f6363c8c1@sillydog.org>
Message-ID: <370625d8f38204c1ef9fc344758947e0.squirrel@mail2.ihtfp.org>


On Mon, October 25, 2021 10:18 pm, Edward wrote:
> I would love to see Thunderbird brought over to Android and iPhone.

I use AquaMail (Pro) on Android, and I've been pretty happy with it.  I
have, over the past decade, tried several different email apps on Android
including the default Mail app (from HTC), GMail, K-9 Mail, and Aquamail
(I'm probably missing some).

I admit that I do have a few requirements that are probably not quite
standard:

1) I've got two different email accounts (personal and work) that I want
access to from the same app.

2) Work email is Outlook, so the app needs to support that.  Better if it
also supports Outlook calendar and contacts (because I have multiple
accounts there, too).

3) I need it to support multiple email addresses on an email account.  For
example, my personal email has several aliases, and I want to be able to
send email as any of them.

I'm sure I had other requirements at the time that I can't think of now.

I doubt it's available on iOS, but you never know.

The TWO downsides are that the app top-posts by default, although you can
actually change that, and replies from the app don't seem to thread
properly (perhaps it misses the References header?).  This has never
bothered me enough to submit a bug report.

-derek

-- 
       Derek Atkins                 617-623-3745
       derek at ihtfp.com             www.ihtfp.com
       Computer and Internet Security Consultant


From markw at mohawksoft.com  Tue Oct 26 07:33:59 2021
From: markw at mohawksoft.com (markw at mohawksoft.com)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2021 07:33:59 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] VirutalBox VMs on NVME?
In-Reply-To: <20211025213712.00007893.Richard.Pieri@gmail.com>
References: <f9ae2ef30907aed5c426c28da3e73606.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
 <5EF0EEAE-5B89-42B2-AEFF-DC006AF249ED@icloud.com>
 <84d08fe908c8a3dacd57204d5b2bcf34.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
 <20211025213712.00007893.Richard.Pieri@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20e266ad957fdc26c37cd36bf93cc969.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>

Oh, I understand, but it is a limitation that makes no sense to me. From a
coding perspective, a file and a device are virtually identical.

There are quite a few advantages to using files over devices.

> On Mon, 25 Oct 2021 20:05:29 -0400
> markw at mohawksoft.com wrote:
>
>> Yup, that was my problem. It won't use a raw file. It will only work
>> on partitions or hard disks. Which, IMHO, is just stupid.
>
> The entire point of raw device access is to bypass the host filesystem
> layer. A file on a host filesystem being treated as a raw device must
> be accessed through the host filesystem thus it's not raw I/O any more.
>
> --
> \m/ (--) \m/
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss at lists.blu.org
> http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>



From markw at mohawksoft.com  Tue Oct 26 07:36:52 2021
From: markw at mohawksoft.com (markw at mohawksoft.com)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2021 07:36:52 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] Virt-Manager
In-Reply-To: <a4461652-9177-17d1-2e61-34c382c14a4b@sillydog.org>
References: <8c19db84-9c80-2bde-72ca-bdc31288b267@sillydog.org>
 <E8B14920-05D5-4E9F-A629-CFEB5CCD1483@icloud.com>
 <7bf7aa22-c0a5-ca9d-e04b-3db3508f2aa3@sillydog.org>
 <CAEvgogHJOFNNpHhvuMesQbO3GM7q+=+qoL8ypn8k74MjfeQw8Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <9f5a1adb-9966-765c-4997-dc983afd482c@sillydog.org>
 <82e25df32ff1b0e60a24065400813d79.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
 <7e963b41-d4d8-f668-48cb-85cb07d4c647@sillydog.org>
 <a33cd52f8df58bcf3603ca1c49b0ea21.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
 <a4461652-9177-17d1-2e61-34c382c14a4b@sillydog.org>
Message-ID: <4b4c086de18bb44acd9abd71de97ba5c.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>

I'm pretty sure there is something weird about PClinux video
configuration. I have zero issues with Windows and other Linux installs.
Maybe we should try the emulated VGA and use VESA standards?

> There is something strange with the PCLOS video. In the VM, the best
> resolution I can get without cutting off the top and/or bottom of the
> window, is 1400x900.
>
>
> On 10/25/21 18:01, markw at mohawksoft.com wrote:
>> You should be able to add/remove/modify hardware on any VM, if it is
>> running, some things may be grayed out. Try shutting down first.
>>
>> Yea, the video on the PCLinux thing is kind of weird. I'm 99% sure its
>> an
>> X configuration setting they are using on their desktop.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss at lists.blu.org
> http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>



From gaf.linux at gmail.com  Tue Oct 26 08:22:34 2021
From: gaf.linux at gmail.com (Jerry Feldman)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2021 08:22:34 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] Virt-Manager
In-Reply-To: <a4461652-9177-17d1-2e61-34c382c14a4b@sillydog.org>
References: <8c19db84-9c80-2bde-72ca-bdc31288b267@sillydog.org>
 <E8B14920-05D5-4E9F-A629-CFEB5CCD1483@icloud.com>
 <7bf7aa22-c0a5-ca9d-e04b-3db3508f2aa3@sillydog.org>
 <CAEvgogHJOFNNpHhvuMesQbO3GM7q+=+qoL8ypn8k74MjfeQw8Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <9f5a1adb-9966-765c-4997-dc983afd482c@sillydog.org>
 <82e25df32ff1b0e60a24065400813d79.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
 <7e963b41-d4d8-f668-48cb-85cb07d4c647@sillydog.org>
 <a33cd52f8df58bcf3603ca1c49b0ea21.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
 <a4461652-9177-17d1-2e61-34c382c14a4b@sillydog.org>
Message-ID: <CAEvgogHMoHdnQkqPUxREb5d1kCCwgtt2nF2GTNTyG=KgGvxiUg@mail.gmail.com>

Remember, the VM itself is an abstraction.

--
Jerry Feldman <gaf.linux at gmail.com>
Boston Linux and Unix http://www.blu.org
PGP key id: 6F6BB6E7
PGP Key fingerprint: 0EDC 2FF5 53A6 8EED 84D1  3050 5715 B88D 6F6
B B6E7

On Mon, Oct 25, 2021, 9:41 PM Edward <epp at sillydog.org> wrote:

> There is something strange with the PCLOS video. In the VM, the best
> resolution I can get without cutting off the top and/or bottom of the
> window, is 1400x900.
>
>
> On 10/25/21 18:01, markw at mohawksoft.com wrote:
> > You should be able to add/remove/modify hardware on any VM, if it is
> > running, some things may be grayed out. Try shutting down first.
> >
> > Yea, the video on the PCLinux thing is kind of weird. I'm 99% sure its an
> > X configuration setting they are using on their desktop.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss at lists.blu.org
> http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>

From markw at mohawksoft.com  Tue Oct 26 08:59:48 2021
From: markw at mohawksoft.com (markw at mohawksoft.com)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2021 08:59:48 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] Potential Subject for BLU Meeting
In-Reply-To: <cb47d1df529b526abf815da5ff07bf6d.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
References: <d03d3420-1c64-8641-378e-4d86416e7ba4@sillydog.org>
 <CAEvgogHd1=0U9VUSxsn4v2X8ObpHB+kwt59F4KTdcoDp9shYPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <c9881629f092c80b334047519838aeac.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
 <CAFv2jcZeA+2zaEJ6GgK7VC=etna_9onoYzHN3fsKgb2Dt_Y5og@mail.gmail.com>
 <cb47d1df529b526abf815da5ff07bf6d.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
Message-ID: <8c571526c8765b487ac2010514a514f7.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>

Would anyone like to work on this with me?

It would be cool to have some "real world" examples. I have a couple, but
it would be cool if we could give some analysis for "containers" vs
"Virtual Machines" not just the perspective of performance, but also
usability, maintainability, etc.




> I think it may be cool if there were a "deep dive" on virtualization *and*
> containers.
>
> (1) Brief discussion about what virtualization is
> (2) VMware, HyperV, KVM/QEMU, and XEN, what the basic differences are.
> (3) Deep dive on KVM/QEMU
>  (3a) VirtIO
>  (3b) Networking NAT, Bridge
>  (3c) Utilities
> (4) Brief discussion about containers
> (5) LXC, Docker, Podman, and Kubernetes
> (6) Deep dive on Podman
>  (6a) namespaces
>  (6b) Networking
>  (6c) Mapping directories into containers
>  (6d) Utilities
> (7) Examples
>
>
> The above would be a master class and probably have to be a collaborative
> work, but VMs and containers are the foundations of cloud computing and
> covering this stuff would be very helpful to anyone trying to wade through
> this stuff.
>
>> If we ignore containers, we've had the following meetings about VMs, I
>> only
>> looked back as far as 2009.
>>
>> April 2019 | Gnome Boxes
>> July 2012 | The Virtual Desktop
>> March 2012 | Red Hat Enterprise Virtualization Manager
>> November 2009 | AMD-V: AMD64 virtualization extension
>> October 2009 | Virtualization on the Desktop
>> February 2009 | Virtualization Deep Dive Day
>>
>> A talk on the current status of VMs would be useful.
>>
>> I run a few VMs at home, but I don't run them on my desktop or laptop
>> machines; I have a rackmount server I purchased on eBay with 32 GB of
>> RAM
>> and24 CPU cores, and I run kvm/quemu on it with CentOS 7 as the OS.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 23, 2021 at 3:52 PM <markw at mohawksoft.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Containers are NOT a light weight vm. Processes in a container are
>>> processes in the main system.
>>>
>>> Containers are essentially processes run in a chroot jail. The LXC
>>> stuff
>>> in the linux kernel adds a lot of namespace isolation and tools for
>>> containers, but in the end a process in a container are processes in
>>> your
>>> system.
>>>
>>> In a VM the hypervisor has a process ID, but all the processes in a VM
>>> are
>>> in the VM and not really exposed to the system.
>>>
>>> > We have had many meetings on vms and containers. Vms have been around
>>> > since
>>> > the 1970s. KVM has been in the mainline kernel since 2007. Containers
>>> are
>>> > a
>>> > more lightweight vm.
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > Jerry Feldman <gaf.linux at gmail.com>
>>> > Boston Linux and Unix http://www.blu.org
>>> > PGP key id: 6F6BB6E7
>>> > PGP Key fingerprint: 0EDC 2FF5 53A6 8EED 84D1  3050 5715 B88D 6F6
>>> > B B6E7
>>> >
>>> > On Fri, Oct 22, 2021, 10:34 AM Edward <epp at sillydog.org> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> Virtual Machines?
>>> >>
>>> >> I did a Google search on the BLU site for any past meetings
>>> pertaining
>>> >> to VM's and it found none.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> Discuss mailing list
>>> >> Discuss at lists.blu.org
>>> >> http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>>> >>
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > Discuss mailing list
>>> > Discuss at lists.blu.org
>>> > http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Discuss mailing list
>>> Discuss at lists.blu.org
>>> http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> John Abreau / Executive Director, Boston Linux & Unix
>> Email: abreauj at gmail.com / WWW http://www.abreau.net / PGP-Key-ID
>> 0x920063C6
>> PGP-Key-Fingerprint A5AD 6BE1 FEFE 8E4F 5C23  C2D0 E885 E17C 9200 63C6
>>
>
>



From eric.chadbourne at icloud.com  Tue Oct 26 10:33:03 2021
From: eric.chadbourne at icloud.com (Eric Chadbourne)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2021 14:33:03 -0000
Subject: [Discuss] Aptitude Test or Family Feud?
Message-ID: <6db3d65a-5c68-4a75-b83f-d8f3c2c9d8b7@me.com>

I just had a brief exchange with a head hunter looking to fill a position at a university.? They asked me to take a test, which I almost always say no to.? I'm not a fscking trick pony.? I don't jump through hoops.? Nevertheless I could use some cash and took a look.? Some answers are "more" right or wrong based on popularity and not completely on technical accuracy.? I refused to play Family Feud and suggested they ask somebody else.? Check out this screenshot:? https://drive.google.com/file/d/1c4hpTFsKemqFh85dBkBJsMtktTxc1Bfe/view?usp=sharingI wonder, is this type of testing is the standard now?? It seems to me that it would be very biased.? I bet you could tell things like race, country of origin, and all sorts of other stuff not directly related to the ability to perform the job.Eric C

From kentborg at borg.org  Tue Oct 26 10:39:09 2021
From: kentborg at borg.org (Kent Borg)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2021 07:39:09 -0700
Subject: [Discuss] Aptitude Test or Family Feud?
In-Reply-To: <6db3d65a-5c68-4a75-b83f-d8f3c2c9d8b7@me.com>
References: <6db3d65a-5c68-4a75-b83f-d8f3c2c9d8b7@me.com>
Message-ID: <735c7c08-5e32-72a4-2727-639c528cbac6@borg.org>

On 10/26/21 7:33 AM, Eric Chadbourne wrote:
> I just had a brief exchange with a head hunter looking to fill a 
> position at a university.? They asked me to take a test, which I 
> almost always say no to.? I'm not a fscking trick pony.? I don't jump 
> through hoops.? Nevertheless I could use some cash and took a look.? 
> Some answers are "more" right or wrong based on popularity and not 
> completely on technical accuracy.? I refused to play Family Feud and 
> suggested they ask somebody else.? Check out this screenshot: 
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1c4hpTFsKemqFh85dBkBJsMtktTxc1Bfe/view?usp=sharingI 
> wonder, is this type of testing is the standard now?? It seems to me 
> that it would be very biased.? I bet you could tell things like race, 
> country of origin, and all sorts of other stuff not directly related 
> to the ability to perform the job.Eric C

This isn't a knowledge or skills test, it is more a personality test, it 
looks to me like some crappy "AI" product they should not have bought. I 
suggest you don't want to join that cult if you can avoid it.

-kb


From markw at mohawksoft.com  Tue Oct 26 10:39:45 2021
From: markw at mohawksoft.com (markw at mohawksoft.com)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2021 10:39:45 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] Aptitude Test or Family Feud?
In-Reply-To: <6db3d65a-5c68-4a75-b83f-d8f3c2c9d8b7@me.com>
References: <6db3d65a-5c68-4a75-b83f-d8f3c2c9d8b7@me.com>
Message-ID: <cf052c3a522d8b4a9a891f1f99371cf4.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>

HR technology is getting out of hand. That isn't am aptitude test, its a
personality test.

> I just had a brief exchange with a head hunter looking to fill a position
> at a university.?? They asked me to take a test, which I almost always say
> no to.?? I'm not a fscking trick pony.?? I don't jump through hoops.??
> Nevertheless I could use some cash and took a look.?? Some answers are
> "more" right or wrong based on popularity and not completely on technical
> accuracy.?? I refused to play Family Feud and suggested they ask somebody
> else.?? Check out this screenshot:??
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1c4hpTFsKemqFh85dBkBJsMtktTxc1Bfe/view?usp=sharingI
> wonder, is this type of testing is the standard now??? It seems to me that
> it would be very biased.?? I bet you could tell things like race, country
> of origin, and all sorts of other stuff not directly related to the
> ability to perform the job.Eric C
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss at lists.blu.org
> http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>



From chrisrobinson at rocketmail.com  Tue Oct 26 10:43:51 2021
From: chrisrobinson at rocketmail.com (Christopher Robinson)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2021 14:43:51 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Discuss] Aptitude Test or Family Feud?
In-Reply-To: <cf052c3a522d8b4a9a891f1f99371cf4.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
References: <6db3d65a-5c68-4a75-b83f-d8f3c2c9d8b7@me.com>
 <cf052c3a522d8b4a9a891f1f99371cf4.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
Message-ID: <1194729168.1134272.1635259431182@mail.yahoo.com>

 

    On Tuesday, October 26, 2021, 10:40:49 AM EDT, <markw at mohawksoft.com> wrote:  
 
 HR technology is getting out of hand. That isn't am aptitude test, its a
personality test.

> I just had a brief exchange with a head hunter looking to fill a position
> at a university.?? They asked me to take a test, which I almost always say
> no to.?? I'm not a fscking trick pony.?? I don't jump through hoops.??
> Nevertheless I could use some cash and took a look.?? Some answers are
> "more" right or wrong based on popularity and not completely on technical
> accuracy.?? I refused to play Family Feud and suggested they ask somebody
> else.?? Check out this screenshot:??
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1c4hpTFsKemqFh85dBkBJsMtktTxc1Bfe/view?usp=sharingI
> wonder, is this type of testing is the standard now??? It seems to me that
> it would be very biased.?? I bet you could tell things like race, country
> of origin, and all sorts of other stuff not directly related to the
> ability to perform the job.Eric C
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss at lists.blu.org
> http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>


_______________________________________________
Discuss mailing list
Discuss at lists.blu.org
http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
  

From dsr at randomstring.org  Tue Oct 26 10:53:52 2021
From: dsr at randomstring.org (Dan Ritter)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2021 10:53:52 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] Aptitude Test or Family Feud?
In-Reply-To: <6db3d65a-5c68-4a75-b83f-d8f3c2c9d8b7@me.com>
References: <6db3d65a-5c68-4a75-b83f-d8f3c2c9d8b7@me.com>
Message-ID: <20211026145352.5fxbmmwahzbl2a2j@randomstring.org>

Eric Chadbourne wrote: 

> I just had a brief exchange with a head hunter looking to fill a
> position at a university.? They asked me to take a test, which I
> almost always say no to.? I'm not a fscking trick pony.? I don't
> jump through hoops.? Nevertheless I could use some cash and took a
> look.? Some answers are "more" right or wrong based on popularity
> and not completely on technical accuracy.? I refused to play Family
> Feud and suggested they ask somebody else.? Check out this screenshot:?
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1c4hpTFsKemqFh85dBkBJsMtktTxc1Bfe/view?usp=sharingI
> wonder, is this type of testing is the standard now?? It seems
> to me that it would be very biased.? I bet you could tell things
> like race, country of origin, and all sorts of other stuff not
> directly related to the ability to perform the job.Eric C >


You did the right thing.

1. The university probably doesn't demand this foolish thing.

2. It's unreasonable.

3. The only way that people get feedback on "maybe we shouldn't
   do that" is by having people refuse. They don't learn much
   from that, though.

-dsr-



From chrisrobinson at rocketmail.com  Tue Oct 26 11:13:55 2021
From: chrisrobinson at rocketmail.com (Christopher Robinson)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2021 15:13:55 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Discuss] Aptitude Test or Family Feud?
In-Reply-To: <20211026145352.5fxbmmwahzbl2a2j@randomstring.org>
References: <6db3d65a-5c68-4a75-b83f-d8f3c2c9d8b7@me.com>
 <20211026145352.5fxbmmwahzbl2a2j@randomstring.org>
Message-ID: <1024186725.1149172.1635261235356@mail.yahoo.com>

 My original did not print. Here it is: I am surprised that London, England ranks higher than the the more obscure Valetta, Malta in the example.In classical text criticism there is a maxim: difficilior lectio potior est: "the more difficult reading is the more powerful."
    On Tuesday, October 26, 2021, 10:54:47 AM EDT, Dan Ritter <dsr at randomstring.org> wrote:  
 
 Eric Chadbourne wrote: 

> I just had a brief exchange with a head hunter looking to fill a
> position at a university.? They asked me to take a test, which I
> almost always say no to.? I'm not a fscking trick pony.? I don't
> jump through hoops.? Nevertheless I could use some cash and took a
> look.? Some answers are "more" right or wrong based on popularity
> and not completely on technical accuracy.? I refused to play Family
> Feud and suggested they ask somebody else.? Check out this screenshot:?
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1c4hpTFsKemqFh85dBkBJsMtktTxc1Bfe/view?usp=sharingI
> wonder, is this type of testing is the standard now?? It seems
> to me that it would be very biased.? I bet you could tell things
> like race, country of origin, and all sorts of other stuff not
> directly related to the ability to perform the job.Eric C >


You did the right thing.

1. The university probably doesn't demand this foolish thing.

2. It's unreasonable.

3. The only way that people get feedback on "maybe we shouldn't
? do that" is by having people refuse. They don't learn much
? from that, though.

-dsr-


_______________________________________________
Discuss mailing list
Discuss at lists.blu.org
http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
  

From epp at sillydog.org  Tue Oct 26 11:23:19 2021
From: epp at sillydog.org (Edward)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2021 11:23:19 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] Virt-Manager
In-Reply-To: <4b4c086de18bb44acd9abd71de97ba5c.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
References: <8c19db84-9c80-2bde-72ca-bdc31288b267@sillydog.org>
 <E8B14920-05D5-4E9F-A629-CFEB5CCD1483@icloud.com>
 <7bf7aa22-c0a5-ca9d-e04b-3db3508f2aa3@sillydog.org>
 <CAEvgogHJOFNNpHhvuMesQbO3GM7q+=+qoL8ypn8k74MjfeQw8Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <9f5a1adb-9966-765c-4997-dc983afd482c@sillydog.org>
 <82e25df32ff1b0e60a24065400813d79.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
 <7e963b41-d4d8-f668-48cb-85cb07d4c647@sillydog.org>
 <a33cd52f8df58bcf3603ca1c49b0ea21.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
 <a4461652-9177-17d1-2e61-34c382c14a4b@sillydog.org>
 <4b4c086de18bb44acd9abd71de97ba5c.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
Message-ID: <8f83c228-c7e8-ab51-8bde-1c161bc5f20e@sillydog.org>

There is. I changed the video setting from VirtIO to VGA and rebooted 
it. The best monitor resolution remains 1440x900.

But I also discovered another oddity with PCLOS. The 'lsusb -v' command 
is showing the Linux Foundation root hubs being USB 2.0 and (something I 
don't have at this moment) USB 3.0, both self-powered, each with *15* 
ports. I personally have never seen a 15-port USB hub. This PC has two 
USB 2.0 ports in the front and four USB 1.1 ports in the back, with a 
USB 2.0 external hub plugged into one of the 1.1 ports on the back.


On 10/26/21 07:36, markw at mohawksoft.com wrote:
> I'm pretty sure there is something weird about PClinux video
> configuration. I have zero issues with Windows and other Linux installs.
> Maybe we should try the emulated VGA and use VESA standards?
>
>> There is something strange with the PCLOS video. In the VM, the best
>> resolution I can get without cutting off the top and/or bottom of the
>> window, is 1400x900.
>>
>>
>> On 10/25/21 18:01, markw at mohawksoft.com wrote:
>>> You should be able to add/remove/modify hardware on any VM, if it is
>>> running, some things may be grayed out. Try shutting down first.
>>>
>>> Yea, the video on the PCLinux thing is kind of weird. I'm 99% sure its
>>> an
>>> X configuration setting they are using on their desktop.

From gaf.linux at gmail.com  Tue Oct 26 11:28:11 2021
From: gaf.linux at gmail.com (Jerry Feldman)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2021 11:28:11 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] Virt-Manager
In-Reply-To: <8f83c228-c7e8-ab51-8bde-1c161bc5f20e@sillydog.org>
References: <8c19db84-9c80-2bde-72ca-bdc31288b267@sillydog.org>
 <E8B14920-05D5-4E9F-A629-CFEB5CCD1483@icloud.com>
 <7bf7aa22-c0a5-ca9d-e04b-3db3508f2aa3@sillydog.org>
 <CAEvgogHJOFNNpHhvuMesQbO3GM7q+=+qoL8ypn8k74MjfeQw8Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <9f5a1adb-9966-765c-4997-dc983afd482c@sillydog.org>
 <82e25df32ff1b0e60a24065400813d79.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
 <7e963b41-d4d8-f668-48cb-85cb07d4c647@sillydog.org>
 <a33cd52f8df58bcf3603ca1c49b0ea21.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
 <a4461652-9177-17d1-2e61-34c382c14a4b@sillydog.org>
 <4b4c086de18bb44acd9abd71de97ba5c.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
 <8f83c228-c7e8-ab51-8bde-1c161bc5f20e@sillydog.org>
Message-ID: <CAEvgogH2U3Ksx=mWoQuiYjJWYVPhirwz+phYT0qcuJV66fA-BA@mail.gmail.com>

This has no relation to your pc. The VM is a virtual pc. These are just
ports the vm sets up for the guest OS.

--
Jerry Feldman <gaf.linux at gmail.com>
Boston Linux and Unix http://www.blu.org
PGP key id: 6F6BB6E7
PGP Key fingerprint: 0EDC 2FF5 53A6 8EED 84D1  3050 5715 B88D 6F6
B B6E7

On Tue, Oct 26, 2021, 11:25 AM Edward <epp at sillydog.org> wrote:

> There is. I changed the video setting from VirtIO to VGA and rebooted
> it. The best monitor resolution remains 1440x900.
>
> But I also discovered another oddity with PCLOS. The 'lsusb -v' command
> is showing the Linux Foundation root hubs being USB 2.0 and (something I
> don't have at this moment) USB 3.0, both self-powered, each with *15*
> ports. I personally have never seen a 15-port USB hub. This PC has two
> USB 2.0 ports in the front and four USB 1.1 ports in the back, with a
> USB 2.0 external hub plugged into one of the 1.1 ports on the back.
>
>
> On 10/26/21 07:36, markw at mohawksoft.com wrote:
> > I'm pretty sure there is something weird about PClinux video
> > configuration. I have zero issues with Windows and other Linux installs.
> > Maybe we should try the emulated VGA and use VESA standards?
> >
> >> There is something strange with the PCLOS video. In the VM, the best
> >> resolution I can get without cutting off the top and/or bottom of the
> >> window, is 1400x900.
> >>
> >>
> >> On 10/25/21 18:01, markw at mohawksoft.com wrote:
> >>> You should be able to add/remove/modify hardware on any VM, if it is
> >>> running, some things may be grayed out. Try shutting down first.
> >>>
> >>> Yea, the video on the PCLinux thing is kind of weird. I'm 99% sure its
> >>> an
> >>> X configuration setting they are using on their desktop.
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss at lists.blu.org
> http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>

From markw at mohawksoft.com  Tue Oct 26 11:30:43 2021
From: markw at mohawksoft.com (markw at mohawksoft.com)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2021 11:30:43 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] Virt-Manager
In-Reply-To: <8f83c228-c7e8-ab51-8bde-1c161bc5f20e@sillydog.org>
References: <8c19db84-9c80-2bde-72ca-bdc31288b267@sillydog.org>
 <E8B14920-05D5-4E9F-A629-CFEB5CCD1483@icloud.com>
 <7bf7aa22-c0a5-ca9d-e04b-3db3508f2aa3@sillydog.org>
 <CAEvgogHJOFNNpHhvuMesQbO3GM7q+=+qoL8ypn8k74MjfeQw8Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <9f5a1adb-9966-765c-4997-dc983afd482c@sillydog.org>
 <82e25df32ff1b0e60a24065400813d79.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
 <7e963b41-d4d8-f668-48cb-85cb07d4c647@sillydog.org>
 <a33cd52f8df58bcf3603ca1c49b0ea21.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
 <a4461652-9177-17d1-2e61-34c382c14a4b@sillydog.org>
 <4b4c086de18bb44acd9abd71de97ba5c.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
 <8f83c228-c7e8-ab51-8bde-1c161bc5f20e@sillydog.org>
Message-ID: <be175411b67ced948f03ef38f59380db.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>

Try fooling around with the settings under "View->Details"

> There is. I changed the video setting from VirtIO to VGA and rebooted
> it. The best monitor resolution remains 1440x900.
>
> But I also discovered another oddity with PCLOS. The 'lsusb -v' command
> is showing the Linux Foundation root hubs being USB 2.0 and (something I
> don't have at this moment) USB 3.0, both self-powered, each with *15*
> ports. I personally have never seen a 15-port USB hub. This PC has two
> USB 2.0 ports in the front and four USB 1.1 ports in the back, with a
> USB 2.0 external hub plugged into one of the 1.1 ports on the back.
>
>
> On 10/26/21 07:36, markw at mohawksoft.com wrote:
>> I'm pretty sure there is something weird about PClinux video
>> configuration. I have zero issues with Windows and other Linux installs.
>> Maybe we should try the emulated VGA and use VESA standards?
>>
>>> There is something strange with the PCLOS video. In the VM, the best
>>> resolution I can get without cutting off the top and/or bottom of the
>>> window, is 1400x900.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 10/25/21 18:01, markw at mohawksoft.com wrote:
>>>> You should be able to add/remove/modify hardware on any VM, if it is
>>>> running, some things may be grayed out. Try shutting down first.
>>>>
>>>> Yea, the video on the PCLinux thing is kind of weird. I'm 99% sure its
>>>> an
>>>> X configuration setting they are using on their desktop.
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss at lists.blu.org
> http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>



From richard.pieri at gmail.com  Tue Oct 26 13:05:06 2021
From: richard.pieri at gmail.com (Rich Pieri)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2021 13:05:06 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] Aptitude Test or Family Feud?
In-Reply-To: <735c7c08-5e32-72a4-2727-639c528cbac6@borg.org>
References: <6db3d65a-5c68-4a75-b83f-d8f3c2c9d8b7@me.com>
 <735c7c08-5e32-72a4-2727-639c528cbac6@borg.org>
Message-ID: <20211026130506.63f05777.Richard.Pieri@gmail.com>

On Tue, 26 Oct 2021 07:39:09 -0700
Kent Borg <kentborg at borg.org> wrote:

> This isn't a knowledge or skills test, it is more a personality test,
> it looks to me like some crappy "AI" product they should not have
> bought. I suggest you don't want to join that cult if you can avoid
> it.

Yeah, this one looks like a pile of garbage.

There are decent (or decent enough) personality tests that let
prospective employers gauge whether or not a candidate is going to be
happy in a given position but this thing? This ain't one of them.

-- 
\m/ (--) \m/

From epp at sillydog.org  Tue Oct 26 13:13:02 2021
From: epp at sillydog.org (Edward)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2021 13:13:02 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] Virt-Manager
In-Reply-To: <be175411b67ced948f03ef38f59380db.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
References: <8c19db84-9c80-2bde-72ca-bdc31288b267@sillydog.org>
 <E8B14920-05D5-4E9F-A629-CFEB5CCD1483@icloud.com>
 <7bf7aa22-c0a5-ca9d-e04b-3db3508f2aa3@sillydog.org>
 <CAEvgogHJOFNNpHhvuMesQbO3GM7q+=+qoL8ypn8k74MjfeQw8Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <9f5a1adb-9966-765c-4997-dc983afd482c@sillydog.org>
 <82e25df32ff1b0e60a24065400813d79.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
 <7e963b41-d4d8-f668-48cb-85cb07d4c647@sillydog.org>
 <a33cd52f8df58bcf3603ca1c49b0ea21.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
 <a4461652-9177-17d1-2e61-34c382c14a4b@sillydog.org>
 <4b4c086de18bb44acd9abd71de97ba5c.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
 <8f83c228-c7e8-ab51-8bde-1c161bc5f20e@sillydog.org>
 <be175411b67ced948f03ef38f59380db.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
Message-ID: <d2040a1c-547d-2090-8b6e-39f71401baf1@sillydog.org>

That, I did... With a complete discombobulation of the display when I 
switched it to *ramfb* (fb=framebuffer?) and rebooted. X then made a 
decision that it would not start and ended up with a happily blinking 
cursor. Switched the video back to VirtIO and rebooted, then the screen 
resolution became so large that the task bar/menu was not even on the 
screen. I hit something under the View menu which brought the display to 
a finer-resolution, but at least the taskbar and menu were then 
accessible, I changed the resolution back to 1440x900.

The distro definitely has some issues with video.



On 10/26/21 11:30, markw at mohawksoft.com wrote:
> Try fooling around with the settings under "View->Details"




From ethanms at bu.edu  Tue Oct 26 13:47:49 2021
From: ethanms at bu.edu (Ethan Schwartz)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2021 13:47:49 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] Aptitude Test or Family Feud?
In-Reply-To: <6db3d65a-5c68-4a75-b83f-d8f3c2c9d8b7@me.com>
References: <6db3d65a-5c68-4a75-b83f-d8f3c2c9d8b7@me.com>
Message-ID: <CEF87396-EA79-4460-9893-2AA6C3D0BBD9@bu.edu>


> On Oct 26, 2021, at 10:34, Eric Chadbourne <eric.chadbourne at icloud.com> wrote:
> Check out this screenshot:  https://drive.google.com/file/d/1c4hpTFsKemqFh85dBkBJsMtktTxc1Bfe/view?usp=sharingI wonder, is this type of testing is the standard now?  It seems to me that it would be very biased.  I bet you could tell things like race, country of origin, and all sorts of other stuff not directly related to the ability to perform the job.Eric C

I've never had a test like this given during a job search...

I have to assume that the idea is to test your "gross general knowledge", and in that regard it actually doesn't seem too unreasonable based on the example...

The ranked value answers _are_ logical because you get a higher benefit for knowing the grossly obvious stuff: London is capital of England, New York is NOT capital of France... and you receive less of a benefit (or deduction) if you answer incorrectly something more obscure like Malta or Antarctica.

While I don't disagree that it might put some severely undereducated folks at a disadvantage, I have to assume that's the point: they wouldn't be hirable anyway for that position and so this is an attempt to weed them out before a human interacts with them.

That all said, I'd be annoyed if this took longer than 10-15 minutes to complete, or if it was required to perform after having a phone interview with a human.

-Ethan

From richard.pieri at gmail.com  Tue Oct 26 14:56:58 2021
From: richard.pieri at gmail.com (Rich Pieri)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2021 14:56:58 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] Aptitude Test or Family Feud?
In-Reply-To: <CEF87396-EA79-4460-9893-2AA6C3D0BBD9@bu.edu>
References: <6db3d65a-5c68-4a75-b83f-d8f3c2c9d8b7@me.com>
 <CEF87396-EA79-4460-9893-2AA6C3D0BBD9@bu.edu>
Message-ID: <20211026145658.34a4a690.Richard.Pieri@gmail.com>

On Tue, 26 Oct 2021 13:47:49 -0400
Ethan Schwartz <ethanms at bu.edu> wrote:

> The ranked value answers _are_ logical because you get a higher
> benefit for knowing the grossly obvious stuff: London is capital of
> England, New York is NOT capital of France... and you receive less of
> a benefit (or deduction) if you answer incorrectly something more
> obscure like Malta or Antarctica.

Unless you happen to live in Malta where I would expect Valletta being
your capital to be of greatest relevance to you, and whether or not New
York is the capital of the US is pointless trivia.

What is grossly obvious to you might be entirely obscure to someone
else.

Family Feud? Nope. More like Trivial Pursuit.

I dunnow, though. Maybe they're looking for people who are good at
Trivial Pursuit. If this is the case then it's a "perfect" test. :)

-- 
\m/ (--) \m/

From greg at freephile.com  Tue Oct 26 16:25:51 2021
From: greg at freephile.com (Greg Rundlett (freephile))
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2021 16:25:51 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] Potential Subject for BLU Meeting
In-Reply-To: <8c571526c8765b487ac2010514a514f7.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
References: <d03d3420-1c64-8641-378e-4d86416e7ba4@sillydog.org>
 <CAEvgogHd1=0U9VUSxsn4v2X8ObpHB+kwt59F4KTdcoDp9shYPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <c9881629f092c80b334047519838aeac.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
 <CAFv2jcZeA+2zaEJ6GgK7VC=etna_9onoYzHN3fsKgb2Dt_Y5og@mail.gmail.com>
 <cb47d1df529b526abf815da5ff07bf6d.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
 <8c571526c8765b487ac2010514a514f7.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
Message-ID: <CANaytce-_o6e7GS4G8q9S6D_oy7t0qdfuPvz31-b-a87NrF40Q@mail.gmail.com>

I created a wiki page with your outline on the BLU Wiki at
https://blu.qualitybox.us/blu/Virtualization

I could create an account for you and anyone who wants to edit. (See the
'Request Account' link next to 'login')

I'm happy to collaborate on this as much as possible.

Greg Rundlett



On Tue, Oct 26, 2021 at 9:01 AM <markw at mohawksoft.com> wrote:

> Would anyone like to work on this with me?
>
> It would be cool to have some "real world" examples. I have a couple, but
> it would be cool if we could give some analysis for "containers" vs
> "Virtual Machines" not just the perspective of performance, but also
> usability, maintainability, etc.
>
>
>
>
> > I think it may be cool if there were a "deep dive" on virtualization
> *and*
> > containers.
> >
> > (1) Brief discussion about what virtualization is
> > (2) VMware, HyperV, KVM/QEMU, and XEN, what the basic differences are.
> > (3) Deep dive on KVM/QEMU
> >  (3a) VirtIO
> >  (3b) Networking NAT, Bridge
> >  (3c) Utilities
> > (4) Brief discussion about containers
> > (5) LXC, Docker, Podman, and Kubernetes
> > (6) Deep dive on Podman
> >  (6a) namespaces
> >  (6b) Networking
> >  (6c) Mapping directories into containers
> >  (6d) Utilities
> > (7) Examples
> >
> >
> > The above would be a master class and probably have to be a collaborative
> > work, but VMs and containers are the foundations of cloud computing and
> > covering this stuff would be very helpful to anyone trying to wade
> through
> > this stuff.
> >
> >> If we ignore containers, we've had the following meetings about VMs, I
> >> only
> >> looked back as far as 2009.
> >>
> >> April 2019 | Gnome Boxes
> >> July 2012 | The Virtual Desktop
> >> March 2012 | Red Hat Enterprise Virtualization Manager
> >> November 2009 | AMD-V: AMD64 virtualization extension
> >> October 2009 | Virtualization on the Desktop
> >> February 2009 | Virtualization Deep Dive Day
> >>
> >> A talk on the current status of VMs would be useful.
> >>
> >> I run a few VMs at home, but I don't run them on my desktop or laptop
> >> machines; I have a rackmount server I purchased on eBay with 32 GB of
> >> RAM
> >> and24 CPU cores, and I run kvm/quemu on it with CentOS 7 as the OS.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Sat, Oct 23, 2021 at 3:52 PM <markw at mohawksoft.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Containers are NOT a light weight vm. Processes in a container are
> >>> processes in the main system.
> >>>
> >>> Containers are essentially processes run in a chroot jail. The LXC
> >>> stuff
> >>> in the linux kernel adds a lot of namespace isolation and tools for
> >>> containers, but in the end a process in a container are processes in
> >>> your
> >>> system.
> >>>
> >>> In a VM the hypervisor has a process ID, but all the processes in a VM
> >>> are
> >>> in the VM and not really exposed to the system.
> >>>
> >>> > We have had many meetings on vms and containers. Vms have been around
> >>> > since
> >>> > the 1970s. KVM has been in the mainline kernel since 2007. Containers
> >>> are
> >>> > a
> >>> > more lightweight vm.
> >>> >
> >>> > --
> >>> > Jerry Feldman <gaf.linux at gmail.com>
> >>> > Boston Linux and Unix http://www.blu.org
> >>> > PGP key id: 6F6BB6E7
> >>> > PGP Key fingerprint: 0EDC 2FF5 53A6 8EED 84D1  3050 5715 B88D 6F6
> >>> > B B6E7
> >>> >
> >>> > On Fri, Oct 22, 2021, 10:34 AM Edward <epp at sillydog.org> wrote:
> >>> >
> >>> >> Virtual Machines?
> >>> >>
> >>> >> I did a Google search on the BLU site for any past meetings
> >>> pertaining
> >>> >> to VM's and it found none.
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >> _______________________________________________
> >>> >> Discuss mailing list
> >>> >> Discuss at lists.blu.org
> >>> >> http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
> >>> >>
> >>> > _______________________________________________
> >>> > Discuss mailing list
> >>> > Discuss at lists.blu.org
> >>> > http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
> >>> >
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Discuss mailing list
> >>> Discuss at lists.blu.org
> >>> http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> John Abreau / Executive Director, Boston Linux & Unix
> >> Email: abreauj at gmail.com / WWW http://www.abreau.net / PGP-Key-ID
> >> 0x920063C6
> >> PGP-Key-Fingerprint A5AD 6BE1 FEFE 8E4F 5C23  C2D0 E885 E17C 9200 63C6
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss at lists.blu.org
> http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>

From mark at buttery.org  Tue Oct 26 16:42:11 2021
From: mark at buttery.org (=?UTF-8?B?U2hpcmxleSBNw6FycXVleiBEw7psY2V5?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2021 16:42:11 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] Aptitude Test or Family Feud?
In-Reply-To: <20211026145658.34a4a690.Richard.Pieri@gmail.com>
References: <6db3d65a-5c68-4a75-b83f-d8f3c2c9d8b7@me.com>
 <CEF87396-EA79-4460-9893-2AA6C3D0BBD9@bu.edu>
 <20211026145658.34a4a690.Richard.Pieri@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMdng5t=sO89YS=zN0EERJ-iy0Z=tKOpdMHPCOp0Qix-SxyWKg@mail.gmail.com>

That's bizarre. It's kind of the opposite of an adaptive test, where you
get more credit for knowing the difficult answers than for knowing the easy
ones.

For those of you who have never taken an adaptive test, it's a
computer-administered multiple choice test that gets a good idea of your
knowledge of a field with far fewer questions than a standard multiple
choice test. Basically, you get progressively more difficult questions
until you miss one, then a series of questions that are somewhere near the
same level as the one you missed to more accurately determine your level.
Tests are usually looking at more than one area of expertise, so the
process is done for each one that the test covers.

The adaptive test is calibrated by giving the full non-adaptive test to a
substantial number of people and determining the patterns of the scores
that people get on each question and the correlations between results on
questions. With that data in hand, an adaptive test with very high
correlation to the results on the full test can be designed. Testing time
can be reduced by 75% with very little loss of accuracy.

On Tue, Oct 26, 2021 at 2:57 PM Rich Pieri <richard.pieri at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tue, 26 Oct 2021 13:47:49 -0400
> Ethan Schwartz <ethanms at bu.edu> wrote:
>
> > The ranked value answers _are_ logical because you get a higher
> > benefit for knowing the grossly obvious stuff: London is capital of
> > England, New York is NOT capital of France... and you receive less of
> > a benefit (or deduction) if you answer incorrectly something more
> > obscure like Malta or Antarctica.
>
> Unless you happen to live in Malta where I would expect Valletta being
> your capital to be of greatest relevance to you, and whether or not New
> York is the capital of the US is pointless trivia.
>
> What is grossly obvious to you might be entirely obscure to someone
> else.
>
> Family Feud? Nope. More like Trivial Pursuit.
>
> I dunnow, though. Maybe they're looking for people who are good at
> Trivial Pursuit. If this is the case then it's a "perfect" test. :)
>
> --
> \m/ (--) \m/
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss at lists.blu.org
> http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>

From kentborg at borg.org  Tue Oct 26 17:26:21 2021
From: kentborg at borg.org (Kent Borg)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2021 14:26:21 -0700
Subject: [Discuss] Aptitude Test or Family Feud?
In-Reply-To: <CAMdng5t=sO89YS=zN0EERJ-iy0Z=tKOpdMHPCOp0Qix-SxyWKg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6db3d65a-5c68-4a75-b83f-d8f3c2c9d8b7@me.com>
 <CEF87396-EA79-4460-9893-2AA6C3D0BBD9@bu.edu>
 <20211026145658.34a4a690.Richard.Pieri@gmail.com>
 <CAMdng5t=sO89YS=zN0EERJ-iy0Z=tKOpdMHPCOp0Qix-SxyWKg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <bf26d0da-66a9-dfcb-4059-2fbb5cc0f9ef@borg.org>

On 10/26/21 1:42 PM, Shirley M?rquez D?lcey wrote:
> That's bizarre. It's kind of the opposite of an adaptive test, where you
> get more credit for knowing the difficult answers than for knowing the easy
> ones.

They are looking for people who fit in? Certainly not looking for those 
who gravitate to and spot boundary cases, for those people are 
troublemakers.


> For those of you who have never taken an adaptive test, it's a
> computer-administered multiple choice test that gets a good idea of your
> knowledge of a field with far fewer questions than a standard multiple
> choice test. Basically, you get progressively more difficult questions
> until you miss one, then a series of questions that are somewhere near the
> same level as the one you missed to more accurately determine your level.
I can see how the approach is efficient. But is seems it is so 
concentrated, there is little redundancy, that any, say, dyslexic noise 
in the system could drop a score a lot.

Google does an early stage job interview that seems to be on the same model.


-kb, the Kent who didn't get the job and knows how to hold a grudge.



From markw at mohawksoft.com  Tue Oct 26 17:59:27 2021
From: markw at mohawksoft.com (markw at mohawksoft.com)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2021 17:59:27 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] Aptitude Test or Family Feud?
In-Reply-To: <bf26d0da-66a9-dfcb-4059-2fbb5cc0f9ef@borg.org>
References: <6db3d65a-5c68-4a75-b83f-d8f3c2c9d8b7@me.com>
 <CEF87396-EA79-4460-9893-2AA6C3D0BBD9@bu.edu>
 <20211026145658.34a4a690.Richard.Pieri@gmail.com>
 <CAMdng5t=sO89YS=zN0EERJ-iy0Z=tKOpdMHPCOp0Qix-SxyWKg@mail.gmail.com>
 <bf26d0da-66a9-dfcb-4059-2fbb5cc0f9ef@borg.org>
Message-ID: <a4a20de252ac7bed253a17bcd05a97bd.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>

Did you not get a position at Google?

> On 10/26/21 1:42 PM, Shirley M??rquez D??lcey wrote:
>> That's bizarre. It's kind of the opposite of an adaptive test, where you
>> get more credit for knowing the difficult answers than for knowing the
>> easy
>> ones.
>
> They are looking for people who fit in? Certainly not looking for those
> who gravitate to and spot boundary cases, for those people are
> troublemakers.
>
>
>> For those of you who have never taken an adaptive test, it's a
>> computer-administered multiple choice test that gets a good idea of your
>> knowledge of a field with far fewer questions than a standard multiple
>> choice test. Basically, you get progressively more difficult questions
>> until you miss one, then a series of questions that are somewhere near
>> the
>> same level as the one you missed to more accurately determine your
>> level.
> I can see how the approach is efficient. But is seems it is so
> concentrated, there is little redundancy, that any, say, dyslexic noise
> in the system could drop a score a lot.
>
> Google does an early stage job interview that seems to be on the same
> model.
>
>
> -kb, the Kent who didn't get the job and knows how to hold a grudge.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss at lists.blu.org
> http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>



From kentborg at borg.org  Tue Oct 26 18:28:15 2021
From: kentborg at borg.org (Kent Borg)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2021 15:28:15 -0700
Subject: [Discuss] Aptitude Test or Family Feud?
In-Reply-To: <a4a20de252ac7bed253a17bcd05a97bd.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
References: <6db3d65a-5c68-4a75-b83f-d8f3c2c9d8b7@me.com>
 <CEF87396-EA79-4460-9893-2AA6C3D0BBD9@bu.edu>
 <20211026145658.34a4a690.Richard.Pieri@gmail.com>
 <CAMdng5t=sO89YS=zN0EERJ-iy0Z=tKOpdMHPCOp0Qix-SxyWKg@mail.gmail.com>
 <bf26d0da-66a9-dfcb-4059-2fbb5cc0f9ef@borg.org>
 <a4a20de252ac7bed253a17bcd05a97bd.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
Message-ID: <a3146ab6-170f-ee38-11be-f9c0b2d53f1f@borg.org>

On 10/26/21 2:59 PM, markw at mohawksoft.com wrote:
> Did you not get a position at Google?
>

No. I'm not perfect.


>> -kb, the Kent who didn't get the job and knows how to hold a grudge.
>>

-kb


From markw at mohawksoft.com  Tue Oct 26 18:40:02 2021
From: markw at mohawksoft.com (markw at mohawksoft.com)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2021 18:40:02 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] Aptitude Test or Family Feud?
In-Reply-To: <a3146ab6-170f-ee38-11be-f9c0b2d53f1f@borg.org>
References: <6db3d65a-5c68-4a75-b83f-d8f3c2c9d8b7@me.com>
 <CEF87396-EA79-4460-9893-2AA6C3D0BBD9@bu.edu>
 <20211026145658.34a4a690.Richard.Pieri@gmail.com>
 <CAMdng5t=sO89YS=zN0EERJ-iy0Z=tKOpdMHPCOp0Qix-SxyWKg@mail.gmail.com>
 <bf26d0da-66a9-dfcb-4059-2fbb5cc0f9ef@borg.org>
 <a4a20de252ac7bed253a17bcd05a97bd.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
 <a3146ab6-170f-ee38-11be-f9c0b2d53f1f@borg.org>
Message-ID: <05d9dce2b8ba2df4892891f667efaf90.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>

> On 10/26/21 2:59 PM, markw at mohawksoft.com wrote:
>> Did you not get a position at Google?
>>
>
> No. I'm not perfect.
>
>
>>> -kb, the Kent who didn't get the job and knows how to hold a grudge.
>>>
>
> -kb
>
>

The are trying to hire, you should try again. You don't have to be perfect.



From eric.chadbourne at icloud.com  Tue Oct 26 19:26:15 2021
From: eric.chadbourne at icloud.com (Eric Chadbourne)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2021 23:26:15 -0000
Subject: [Discuss] Aptitude Test or Family Feud?
Message-ID: <36bbd887-853e-4b52-bbca-650c4e3eafea@me.com>

Interesting Shirley about the adaptive test.? That makes sense.+1 to Kent.? While I'm no educator, merely a server wrestler, but my gut says this particular test does not reward troublemakers.? I definitely do not fit in.? Tests give me anxiety regardless of how easy or insipid it is.It was a full time job at Rochester University.? IAM admin.? They're still looking I believe.Eric COn Oct 26, 2021, at 5:27 PM, Kent Borg <kentborg at borg.org> wrote:On 10/26/21 1:42 PM, Shirley M?rquez D?lcey wrote:That's bizarre. It's kind of the opposite of an adaptive test, where youget more credit for knowing the difficult answers than for knowing the easyones.They are looking for people who fit in? Certainly not looking for those who gravitate to and spot boundary cases, for those people are troublemakers.For those of you who have never taken an adaptive test, it's acomputer-administered multiple choice test that gets a good idea of yourknowledge of a field with far fewer questions than a standard multiplechoice test. Basically, you get progressively more difficult questionsuntil you miss one, then a series of questions that are somewhere near thesame level as the one you missed to more accurately determine your level.I can see how the approach is efficient. But is seems it is so concentrated, there is little redundancy, that any, say, dyslexic noise in the system could drop a score a lot.Google does an early stage job interview that seems to be on the same model.-kb, the Kent who didn't get the job and knows how to hold a grudge._______________________________________________Discuss mailing listDiscuss at lists.blu.orghttp://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss

From eric.chadbourne at icloud.com  Tue Oct 26 19:50:17 2021
From: eric.chadbourne at icloud.com (Eric Chadbourne)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2021 19:50:17 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] Aptitude Test or Family Feud?
In-Reply-To: <05d9dce2b8ba2df4892891f667efaf90.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
References: <05d9dce2b8ba2df4892891f667efaf90.squirrel@mail.mohawksoft.com>
Message-ID: <70C0ECFE-67DA-4BE6-A15B-711A38F66832@icloud.com>


> On Oct 26, 2021, at 6:41 PM, markw at mohawksoft.com wrote:
> 
> ?
>> 
>>> On 10/26/21 2:59 PM, markw at mohawksoft.com wrote:
>>> Did you not get a position at Google?
>>> 
>> 
>> No. I'm not perfect.
>> 
>> 
>>>> -kb, the Kent who didn't get the job and knows how to hold a grudge.
>>>> 
>> 
>> -kb
>> 
>> 
> 
> The are trying to hire, you should try again. You don't have to be perfect.

Borrowing your idea.  I'm going to apply with Google this evening.  Odd I never thought to look at their openings.  Thanks.

Eric C


From richard.pieri at gmail.com  Tue Oct 26 20:01:41 2021
From: richard.pieri at gmail.com (Rich Pieri)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2021 20:01:41 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] Aptitude Test or Family Feud?
In-Reply-To: <36bbd887-853e-4b52-bbca-650c4e3eafea@me.com>
References: <36bbd887-853e-4b52-bbca-650c4e3eafea@me.com>
Message-ID: <20211026200141.00005ee1.Richard.Pieri@gmail.com>

On Tue, 26 Oct 2021 23:26:15 -0000
Eric Chadbourne <eric.chadbourne at icloud.com> wrote:

> Interesting Shirley about the adaptive test.? That makes sense.+1 to
> Kent.? While I'm no educator, merely a server wrestler, but my gut
> says this particular test does not reward troublemakers.? I
> definitely do not fit in.? Tests give me anxiety regardless of how
> easy or insipid it is.It was a full time job at Rochester University.

Schools can be difficult places to get hired. They typically don't want
you if you're not already in academia. This is difficult for them
because corporate pays a lot more. Qualified technical applicants are
sparse.

TBH? Don't work for a school. Inferior pay to what you'll get elsewhere
and the faculty will set you up to fail because they'd rather spend
your salary on grad students who will further their research.

-- 
\m/ (--) \m/

From dbarrett at blazemonger.com  Tue Oct 26 20:10:32 2021
From: dbarrett at blazemonger.com (Daniel Barrett)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2021 20:10:32 -0400
Subject: [Discuss] Aptitude Test or Family Feud?
References: <bf26d0da-66a9-dfcb-4059-2fbb5cc0f9ef@borg.org>
Message-ID: <24952.39160.684536.390126@blazemonger.com>

On October 26, 2021, Kent Borg wrote:
>Google does an early stage job interview that seems to be on the same
>model.

Interesting. For what kind of position? The only such test I know of
at Google (for technical writers) is highly relevant to the job.

On a similar note, I applied to a Boston-area tech company in the late
1990s who insisted that all applicants be subjected to a handwriting
analysis. Y'know, the kind that supposedly reveals your true
personality from the curves of your cursive writing? Apparently the
CEO believed in it. (I got the job but didn't take it.)

Dan