[HH] More re: LoRaWAN and geolocation

[Kurt Keville]

There is a lot on this subject in Google Scholar... like
http://scholarsmine.mst.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=5693&context=masters_theses
http://discovery.ucl.ac.uk/1470731/11/Thesis_JieXiong2015.pdf
https://web.wpi.edu/Images/CMS/PPL/WPI_Pahlavan.pdf
WPI seems to have a lot of PhD theses on this topic...

you can further reduce your error bars by superimposing a map of some
variety like they did with
https://slowchop.com/2008/08/17/wireless-heatmap/

I will give this a try with my WiFi radios which have a S/N ratio
close to 1. :(  That's why I prefer BTScan if available... Power use
at gateways is not really an issue for us, so it is worth a try,
especially if it improves performance or feature set.



On Fri, Mar 17, 2017 at 9:37 PM, Stephen Ronan <sronan at gmail.com> wrote:
> The Dutch telecom provider KPN completed a nationwide LoRaWAN network
> early last summer. They're now rolling about geolocation services.
> According to a user on the ThingsNetwork forums:
> --------------
> you can't get a LoRa KPN abo from KPN themselves, the provider
> SIMpoint is delivering this for them. I got the following info from
> SIMpoint:
> LoRa with Geolocation: (costs per year)
> Bundels Uplinks Downlinks Price
> Often 36500 3650 € 15,30
> Mostly 109500 900 € 17,75
> I will probably need the 'often option', I have 36500 uplinks a year
> with this option, that is 100 a day so more than needed.
> https://www.thethingsnetwork.org/forum/t/looking-for-a-lorawan-board-only-geolocation/4419/9
>
> ========================
>
> And, at least according to their public pronouncements thus far, the
> ThingsNetwork via their first generation, soon-to-be-released
> kickstarter gateways won't support geolocation based on high
> resolution timestamping done at the gateways of messages from nodes.
>
> However, as of this exchange on their forum last September:
>
> Johan: "Also, we're going to support localization using WiFi BSSIDs,
> also known as the MAC addresses of the access points nearby, directly
> in the Handler for a seamless application developer experience. The
> idea is that your devices briefly scan WiFi access points using cheap
> WiFi chips (e.g. $5 ESP8266), packs it as LoRaWAN uplink message and
> sends it to a special port for the Handler to pick it up, decode it
> and lookup the location. This is not as low power as LoRa
> triangulation, but consumes less power than GPS and is quite accurate
> in urban areas (where LoRa triangulation is really bad still).
> -----
> hoonppark:  Regarding the localization using WiFi BSSIDs, I have a few
> questions as follows:
>
> What would be the accuracy? For example, it would be accurate within
> 20 meters or 50 meters range ?
> Does it need just one WiFi BSSIDs, or at least three WiFi BSSIDs to work?
> What happens if there is no WiFi access point near by?
> Does the Handler calculate the location of the node? Or, does each
> application need to calculate the location of the nodes?
> According to the roadmap, it will be available in Q4 of 2016. Will it
> be available by Dec. 31, 2016?
> You mentioned "LoRa triangulation is really bad still". Do you mean it
> is still bad even with the Semtech’s LoRa Geolocation Solution
> announced on June 30, 20161?
> Do you think this WiFi BSSID-based localization is better or
> comparable to the publicly announced 'CSEM's LoRa-based GPS-free
> Positioning Solution2'?
>
> -----------
> johanLeaderSep '16
> @hoonppark; here are the answers:
>
> That depends on various factors, see here
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wi-Fi_positioning_system>. From our
> testing so far using Google Localization API, we're close to 10-20
> meters in the center of Amsterdam
> More BSSIDs makes it more accurate, but costs payload. That's the
> trade-off application developers need to make
> Then you need to fallback on another way of localization. We are
> sending the gateway's coordinates in the metadata
> The Handler does that for you. Note that depending on the database
> we're going to use, we may need an API key of even a subscription for
> this
> Yes
> Yes
> It's better in the sense that it will be more accurate in cities, but
> not better in terms of power consumption. They positioning is just
> standard LoRa triangulation; no extra magic
> ===========
>
> Tangentially, another user posted a link to: EspWiFiTracker
> https://revspace.nl/EspWifiTracker
>   - Stephen Ronan
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