H1B

[stranofamily at attbi.com (Richard Stano)]

Slave labor can you compete how about all the people in India that died from
the heat?
A race to the bottom. Is that what were trying to accomplish?
I know that this seams niave but the idea of free trade was suppose
to raise the living standards so that other countries can afford to buy from
us.
How do you folks like all the savings have noticed all the prices falling
once the
companies have left this country and gone to China India and so forth. Also
I wonder
what the true unemployment rate is. Including the people that have run out
of benefits.
It's called maximizing profits. I gues some forms of slavery are legal huh?
also most of the south american countries with high unemployment believe
free trade is the problem.
Rick




-----Original Message-----
From: discuss-admin at blu.org [mailto:discuss-admin at blu.org]On Behalf Of
Scooter Scooter
Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2003 6:13 PM
To: flucifredi at acm.org; discuss at blu.org
Subject: re: H1B


>Dear BLU,

[snip]

>I appreciate the balanced and economics-aware point
of view of this one.
>However, more "I got the right answer here" points of
view are doomed to
>appear, as the *obscene* one following:
>
>> off-shore, we need to have a "if you want to sell
here, you have to
>> employ from here" trade policy. Corporations can
move off-shore but
>> then they can't make money off the 300M people in
the U.S.

>Stop whining, in Europe the level of unemployment the
US has right now would
>be considered good, in South America (in "Free Trade"
mode) it would be
>considered outstanding.... [snip]

This is not about level playing fields. If you see the
Argentine government taking money from Microsoft in
exchange for promising *not* to use locally developed,
free software, how would you feel?

Now say you raised this topic because you were
concerned about corporations corrupting your
government in exchange for bribes or personal gain.

Now hold that thought.

How would you feel then if someone belittled (or
"spun") your concerns as being "anti-Microsoft"?

You'd be screaming "that's not the bloody point is
it?".

See? :-)

On the whole, you are talking to a smart bunch that
(I'd wager, or assume) support "fair trade", market
economics, sustainable levels of immigration and
open-source software. Probably none of us support an
information industry dominated by Microsoft... even
though this position WILL lose us some jobs.

Think about that.

> There are millions of people out there dying of
famine, and the US is the
>place where people (on average) have the most
(materially speaking). Wanna
>complain ? Move to Buenos Aires, and I will be glad
to introduce you to 30%
>unemployment - this while the White House keeps
telling the Argentine
>government that the most important thing is, lest not
forget, Free Trade.

The most important thing to George is campaign
contributions. This is a guy who allowed Enron buddies
to execute the California high-tech economy, with a
*nasty* ripple-effect back to the tech market in Mass.



>
>I am not an H1, before you wonder, and I lived both
in South America, Europe
>and the US for extensive periods of time, I have the
passports of two
>countries in the areas mentioned, and perhaps because
I am so cosmopolitan,
>I am revolted by these outbursts of xenofobia of
"H1B's *stealing* jobs from
>veterans" or "ya gotta employ here" bull. This is the
country that felt it
>perfectly appropriate to send a fleet of dreadnaughts
into the bay of Tokio
>with the message, "you trade with us or we shoot" in
the name of "Free
>Trade" - something that is otrageous enough without
the notion that, all of
>a sudden, it is OK to be protectionistic when it is
American jobs that are
>lost.

Good of you to join us. Most people in the world want
to be our guests, and earn a USA "return address" on
their mail.

However history is full of examples of unfairness...
warships to Tokyo, the Spanish Inquisition ("our chief
weapons are surprise! And ruthlessness!"), genocide of
native Americans from the tip of Alaska to the
southernmost point of Argentina and Chili.

We all like to point at the misdeeds of others, while
forgetting our own past.

Anyways, portraying a debate over what essentially is
government corruption (these are government-sponsored
programs) as "protectionism"... that's a disservice to
everyone who cared about this thread.

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