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Mark: Yes, the below is IMHO correct, but the issue is much bigger than that. For example, Workers Comp. The government was aware of the fact that it was "difficult to tell" who was covering workers comp, and they hated that. So, they made the end customer (deepest pockets) responsible for ensuring somebody was. Just one small "administrative law" example. Government wants the masses to think that all forms or labor, all structures of entities through which people can bill are "tax neutral". I.e., it doesn't matter how you structure it, the same amount of tax is owed, regardless. Trusts, corporations, LLCs, aka "persons"; "individuals", all have very specific meaning in law. Law is all about specific meaning. Tax neutrality is a fairy tale that insatiable government hopes everyone believes. Mechanically, more complex structures make the tax agencies work harder to pin the tail on the donkey. Legally, less conventional structures highlight (let's call them) "Liability holes" in jurisdiction. I've been blessed to be a witness to many of the legal battles in this and related areas. This is a blog about *nix and computer contracting, so I won't continue down the above train of logic (although I know that many on this list know the real story), suffice it to say that all these actions by the government are aimed at maximizing tax revenue. It has nothing to do with fairness. If computer workers wanted fairness, they would need to hire people to lobby and play the same games (in representative government) that the unions play. I'm not a lawyer giving legal advice, or an accountant giving tax advice. To do so would be technically illegal (nice, huh?). To give advice in these areas is regulated by government, just as doctors are regulated in giving a medical prognosis. What I would advise is NOT always to believe the so-called "experts", and conventional wisdom, and do the research yourself regarding these very well researched areas. It all begins in Philadelphia in 1776. It is quite a story. You have to start at the beginning for it to make sense. Some things have changed in 225 years, but many technically remain the same, at least in theory. Unfortunately, the courts have been assigned the role of "umpire", and have not been doing their "check and balance" thing very well. Thanks, Jim Gasek --- mbr at arlsoft.com wrote: From: MBR <mbr at arlsoft.com> To: "Edward Ned Harvey (blu)" <blu at nedharvey.com> Cc: Joseph Guarino <jguarino at evolutionaryit.com>, "discuss at blu.org" <discuss at blu.org> Subject: [Discuss] Mass. outlawed independent contractors in software and other creative professions in 2004 Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 23:46:56 -0400 The cracking down on companies using contractors instead of employees is another case of state legislators discriminating against software developers and other professions that create intellectual property. People who create intellectual property often want to be independent contractors. Among other things, if you're forced to be a W-2 employee rather than an independent contractor, you lose any right to anything you create. It's fairly common for a programmer to do similar projects for clients, and over time to factor out the commonalities in the code he creates for each one and assemble a collection of his code that he can customize for subsequent clients. A 2004 change to Mass. law that software temp agencies have only recently discovered, makes it effectively impossible for programmers and people in other professions who create intellectual property to operate as independent contractors. And that means they can no longer own what they create. The 2004 law was passed because construction workers and other unionized workers were finding that employers were forcing them to set up phony independent contractor status so the employer could get out of providing benefits. And since union leaders and politicians are often buddy-buddy, the Mass. legislature passed an overbroad law to help out their union cronies without giving a damn about the havoc they'd be causing to software engineers, even though software is one of the biggest parts of the state's economy. It took several years before the law actually filtered down to clients, but now I'm hearing that nobody in the country will hire an independent software contractor from Massachusetts. Same goes for writers, artists, etc. See http://www.wbur.org/2010/06/30/independent-contractor-law. Mark Rosenthal mbr at arlsoft.com <mailto:mbr at arlsoft.com> On 7/30/2013 4:50 PM, Edward Ned Harvey (blu) wrote: >> From: discuss-bounces+blu=nedharvey.com at blu.org [mailto:discuss- >> bounces+blu=nedharvey.com at blu.org] On Behalf Of Joseph Guarino >> >> What were they thinking? As a political independent I'm not opposed to >> taxation but I am opposed to them being unfairly levied against >> industries we should be trying to encourage to stay in the state. > It's a use tax. Amazon and rackspace are not located in MA, but the consumers in MA have to pay the tax. So I don't really think it fairly or unfairly pushes tech jobs out of the state. Unless your job happens to be a big consumer of such products. > > They conceived it during the economic downswing. At that time, I saw them cracking down hard, on things they had let slide for years. To gain revenue. I know at least 3 companies that got suddenly smacked with taxes and fines for using contractors instead of employees - Companies which were 100% above board. But they have a good estimate how much it will cost you to defend your case, so they just fine you some amount below that level, knowing that most businesses will simply pay it off rather than fight it. This happened with 2 out of the 3 companies I mentioned. The 3rd one decided to contest the charges, and as predicted, got the fines dismissed at a cost higher than the fines themselves. > _______________________________________________ Discuss mailing list Discuss at blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss