[Discuss] DMARC issue, Yahoo and beyond

[Bill Horne]

On 5/17/2014 8:52 AM, Edward Ned Harvey (blu) wrote:
>> From: discuss-bounces+blu=nedharvey.com at blu.org [mailto:discuss-
>> bounces+blu=nedharvey.com at blu.org] On Behalf Of Bill Horne
>>
>>> It was added in 2.1.16, and "fixed" in 2.1.18.
>> Since the BLU is currently using 2.1.12, I think an obvious solution is
>> available ...
>>
>> How many Yahoo/Gmail/Comcast/etc subscribers do we have? Are we able
>> to confirm delivery problems?
> You seem to be suggesting ignoring it, and/or kicking yahoo subscribers (or blocking them from posting.

No, I'm not, and I didn't intend to infer it.

I'm interested in knowing the least labor-intensive way to address this 
issue for BLU's mailing list subscribers whom use YaGooCast addresses 
that may be affected by the new policy. If there were a small number of 
those subscribers, I might propose a solution that required more (per 
capita) effort to set up and/or maintain.

I also wanted to know if the BLU has been able to confirm a problem with 
those subscribers: experience with large ISPs has taught me that they 
don't always implement changes the way we might expect.

> I have both an earlier comment, and a later comment.
>
> Later in this thread, I said:  " A recipient on gmail (or whatever) will reject the post from the yahoo user, and *send a bounce.* [...]  I am pretty sure the mailman default behavior is to unsubscribe users that bounce, after a few tries."

Mailman can be set for several different options, but we must proceed 
with caution: it's not clear that every ISP /does/ send a bounce message 
for messages that don't meet yahoo's DMARC options. I tried to send an 
email to a GMAIL address, with both "From:" and envelope sender fields 
set to a Yahoo address, and I had to look at my logs to know if was 
rejected, because GMAIL didn't send a bounce.

On the one hand, that's good because it prevents "blowback" spam, but on 
the other it masks the problem. Either way, the first step is to find 
out exactly what we're dealing with and /then/ make a plan to move forward.

> Earlier in this thread, I said:  " This policy actually makes sense, and will be increasing in the future.  It's only a matter of time before google and everyone else do the same."
>
> Have you looked into who's behind creating DMARC?  AOL, Google, Microsoft, Yahoo, Facebook, Comcast, and others.

If you're inferring that the advertiser-supported email providers are 
conspiring to break something, then I don't agree. I've dealt with the 
technical staff at Comcast and other "large" ISPs, and I know them to be 
professionals whom are trying to do their jobs as well as possible. Part 
of their job is to prevent enough spam that their users don't want to 
switch providers, and if DMARC helps them to do that, then they'll use 
it. In any case, there's no point debating their motivation: they are 
too big to fail, and what /they/ use *is* a de facto standard.

I recommend the BLU update Mailman to a version which allows per-user 
options that will allow YaGooCast subscribers to receive posts sent to 
BLU mailing lists.

BIll

-- 
Bill Horne
William Warren Consulting
339-364-8487