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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple style='word-wrap: break-word;-webkit-nbsp-mode: space;-webkit-line-break: after-white-space'><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif";color:blue'>Any experience on this list with the following?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif";color:blue'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>Z-Wave USB devices:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'><a href="http://www.z-wave.com/modules/Products/?id=54&chk=0f048a0c1b1b9bfc5a733ca6d53fb254">http://www.z-wave.com/modules/Products/?id=54&chk=0f048a0c1b1b9bfc5a733ca6d53fb254</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>Z-Wave Commander:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'><a href="http://melloware.com/products/zwave/">http://melloware.com/products/zwave/</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif";color:blue'>-Nilanjan</span><span style='color:blue'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif";color:blue'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif";color:blue'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Kurt Keville<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, December 07, 2011 4:44 PM<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [HH] Home remote control - not exactly hardware hacking.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>I saw a bunch of Home Automation products built around PlugComputers at the Marvell PlugIN a year or so ago... <a href="http://www.amahi.org/">http://www.amahi.org/</a> was one of them... I think you need a halfway decent wireless system in your house for this class of products...<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Dec 7, 2011, at 2:21 PM, Tom Metro wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>Jerry Feldman wrote:<br><br><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Tom Metro wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal>I recommend starting small and simple. If you go Z-Wave start with one<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal>of these:<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Intermatic-HA07C-Settings-Wireless-Control/dp/B000BRGU2E/">http://www.amazon.com/Intermatic-HA07C-Settings-Wireless-Control/dp/B000BRGU2E/</a><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal>...it is a pain to change the setting on the time change as well as<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal>adjust for sundown.<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal><br>The above timer actually supports a sunrise and sunset timer setting,<br>which theoretically further eliminates the need to make timer<br>adjustments. I found the feature a bit unpredictable, and limiting<br>because it didn't support setting an offset. (Maybe you want it to turn<br>on later, because the sun sets later at your lat/lon. Or maybe you want<br>it to turn on a bit earlier because it is an indoor light on a shaded<br>side of your house that gets darker before sunset.)<br><br>So I ended up just programming in fixed times, which I adjust a few<br>times a year.<br><br>Ultimately I want it to be driven by light sensors, so when you have a<br>dark rainy day like today, the lights come on earlier.<br><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>What I would like to do more long term is to control the thermostat.<o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal>My current thermostat is good, but very few compensate for holidays.<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal>Additionally, if I am away from home and I forget to set it for<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal>vacation, with home automation I would be able to.<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal><br>Check out this thermostat:<br><a href="http://www.nest.com/">http://www.nest.com/</a><br><br>It costs $250 (currently sold out). Has an iPhone inspired UI (and 320 x<br>320 pixel color display). It learns your usage patterns so you don't<br>have to manually program a setback schedule.<br><br>The site says it has an "activity sensor" to tell when people are<br>around, but they don't specify the technology. There's no visible PIR<br>sensor on the face. (Specs say it has proximity, near-field, and<br>far-field sensors, plus ambient light sensor.)<br><br>It is WiFi connected and will use weather data to adjust its settings.<br>As you'd expect it also lets you remotely control the thermostat via an<br>account on the manufacturer's web site (and via mobile apps.). (And that<br>likely means the feature will become useless if the manufacturer goes<br>out of business. I understand why companies favor this approach, but I<br>hate it. No mention of an API or hacker community, but they may exist.)<br><br>Specs say it supports Zigbee wireless networking in addition to WiFi.<br>(Zigbee is structurally similar to Zwave, and is sometimes used for home<br>automation, but it is a general purpose communication protocol, and<br>lacks a home automation specification, so random devices from different<br>manufacturers don't work together. They probably use it for<br>inter-thermostat communication so that functionality would work<br>independent of the availability of WiFi.)<br><br>While it may be the most stylish thermostat you can find, and even comes<br>with its own stylish screwdriver, $250 is pretty pricey. And it<br>supposedly works best when you link multiple of them together (up to<br>10). I imagine you'd need to spread a few around your house in order for<br>the automatic away detection to work well, unless you happen to walk by<br>your thermostat a lot when you are home.<br><br><br>On the more practical side of things, you can get a GE Zwave thermostat<br>for $60:<br>http://www.safemart.com/GE-Security-Wireless/GE-Z-Wave-Wireless-Thermostat-IS-ZW-TSTAT-100.htm<br><br>2Gig (an alarm panel mfgr) Z-STAT Z-Wave Programmable Thermostat for $88<br>http://www.amazon.com/2Gig-Z-STAT-Z-Wave-Programmable-Thermostat/dp/B004MM4800/<br><br>Trane for $126:<br>http://www.amazon.com/TZEMT400BB3-Remote-Energy-Management-Thermostat/dp/B0052MHPP4/<br><br>Honeywell for $159:<br>http://www.amazon.com/Honeywell-TH8320ZW1007-Enabled-Programmable-Thermostat/dp/B005EJ7YO2/<br><br><br>When I last looked into Zwave thermostats a few years ago, the<br>Wayne-Dalton model was the most popular choice (due to selling for under<br>$100), but got complaints about a cheap plastic enclosure that broke<br>easily. Looks like it has since been discontinued.<br><br>The Trane was the next option, but that the time sold for over $200.<br>They've come out with a new model and dropped the price (reviews seem<br>positive).<br><br>The others are newer to the market. The GE one is made to work with<br>their alarm panels and I don't see any reviews indicating whether it is<br>generally compatible with other Zwave controllers. (I happen to own some<br>GE alarm equipment, but don't use the Zwave functionality as they<br>stupidly made it dependent on you subscribing to a 3rd party alarm<br>monitoring service.)<br><br>The 2Gig is also meant to work with an alarm panel, but the manufacturer<br>explicitly says it is compatible with other controllers, such as the<br>(Linux running) MiCasaVerde Vera controller. The reviews on it sound<br>promising.<br><br><br>Looks like there are a bunch of WiFi thermostats on the market now too,<br>like:<br>http://www.amazon.com/Homewerks-Thermostat-CT-30-H-K2-Wireless-Module/dp/B004YZFU1Q/<br><br>Probably a good bet if you just want to be able to remotely control a<br>single thermostat and not integrate it with a home automation setup. I<br>imagine each one has its own proprietary interface, and requires use of<br>a manufacturer's web site to communicate with it.<br><br><br>If you are an industrious hacker you can pair one of these Zwave<br>thermostats with several Zwave temperature sensors, or temp/light/motion<br>sensors:<br>http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=HomeSeer+HSM100&tbm=shop&cid=6168500570220552410&os=sellers<br><br>and create the equivalent of the multi-thermostat Nest thermostat setup.<br><br><br>For me, the most interesting aspect of a home automation connected<br>thermostats would be heating efficiency tracking. The thermostat can<br>report the amount of time your furnace was running (my old programmable<br>thermostat does this, but not convenient to record that info<br>daily/weekly), from which you can calculate fuel consumption (unless you<br>have the latest variable-burn rate technology). Correlate that with the<br>"degree days" statistics for the period, and you can see how efficiently<br>your heating system is working. Then when you make adjustments to your<br>insulation, you can pretty quickly see if that is reflected in improved<br>efficiency.<br><br>-Tom<br>_______________________________________________<br>Hardwarehacking mailing list<br>Hardwarehacking@blu.org<br>http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/hardwarehacking<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></body></html>