<div dir="ltr"><div>I looked through the calendar for non-Linux UNIX topics. Here's what i found:</div><div><br></div><div>2016-12-21 | Dan Stoltz - Windows Containers, WSL (Windows Subsystem for Linux)<br>2009-04-15 | Clem Cole - UNIX, Linux, and BSD: A Look Back (again)<br>2008-04-16 | Robert Getschmann - Overview of FreeBSD<br>2004-12-15 | Robert Getschmann - What's New with BSD<br>2003-08-20 | Michael Oh - Mac OS X Server and Apple's Xserver platform<br>2002-08-21 | P.A.M. Borys and Peter R. Wood - Introduction to Apple MacOS X<br>2002-07-17 | Daoud Shariff - Introduction to IBM AIX<br>2001-09-19 | Clem Cole - The History of UNIX: How We Got Where We Are<br>1999-10-20 | Robert Getschmann - Overview of FreeBSD<br>1998-07-15 | Ted Kochanski - Lucent Inferno - Update on Bell Labs Network OSes<br>1996-07-17 | Thomas Bushnell - GNU HURD: The Latest News<br>1996-04-17 | Jon "maddog" Hall - Linux and Commercial UNIX: Adversaries or Bedfellows? <br></div><div><br></div><div>WSL is still Linux-adjacent, so that probably shouldn't count, even though the host is Windows.</div><div><br></div><div>So, other than WSL, the most recent non-Linux UNIX topic was BSD in 2009. Thirteen years ago. <br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Dec 3, 2022 at 7:20 PM Bill Ricker <<a href="mailto:bill.n1vux@gmail.com">bill.n1vux@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif"><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Dec 3, 2022 at 9:36 AM John Abreau <<a href="mailto:jabr@blu.org" target="_blank">jabr@blu.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div>It's been a long time since we last had a talk involving non-Linux topics. <br></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><div style="font-family:georgia,serif" class="gmail_default">BSD lives.</div><div style="font-family:georgia,serif" class="gmail_default">Commercial Unix continues.<br></div><br></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div></div><div></div><div>It might be interesting to have a meeting regarding the state of UNIX in today's world. I imagine many traditional UNIXes may be moribund at this point, but a historical overview might be interesting. <br></div><div><br></div><div>1. What traditional UNIXes are still in active use and/or being actively developed?</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div style="font-family:georgia,serif" class="gmail_default"><b>UNIX liveness</b> (<i>initially from same <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Unix_systems#/media/File:Unix_history-simple.svg" target="_blank">Wikipedia SVG</a> as below</i>;<i> updated from individual Wikipedia pages</i>)<br></div><div style="font-family:georgia,serif" class="gmail_default"><ul><li><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><b><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif"></span><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif">✓ </span></b></span><b>System V</b> R4 descent</li><ul><li><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><b><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif"></span><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif">✓ </span></b></span><b>AIX</b> 7.3 (IBM; proprietary; Dec 2021) Long term support, slow update cycle?</li><li><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><b><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif"></span><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif">✓ </span></b></span><b>HP-UX</b> 11i+ v3 ( proprietary; May 2022)</li><li><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><b><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif"></span><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif">✓ </span></b></span><b>Oracle Solaris</b> 11.4 SRU51 (ex <strike>Sun</strike>;  proprietary; Oracle, Nov 2022)<br><strike><b>OpenSolaris</b></strike> dead long since at Oracle ex-Sun;<br> living OpenSolaris forks (FLOSS): <br><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><b><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif">✓</span></b></span>illumos/OpenIndiana (Dec 2021), <br><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><b>½</b></span>SchilliX?, SmartOS (2020), <br><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><b><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif">✓</span></b></span>OmniOScd (2022),<br>others might be alive-ish also?<br><br></li></ul><li><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><b><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif"></span><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif">✓ </span></b></span><b>BSD</b> (with Sys V + Gnu mixins; FLOSS)<br></li><ul><li><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><b><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif"></span><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif">✓ </span></b></span>OpenBSD 7.2 (Oct 2022)<br></li><li><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><b><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif"></span><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif">✓ </span></b></span>NetBSD 9.3 (Aug 2022)<br></li><li><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><b><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif"></span><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif">✓ </span></b></span>DragonFly BSD 6.2.2 (June 2022)<br></li><li><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><b><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif"></span><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif">✓ </span></b></span>FreeBSD 13.1 (2022)<br></li><li><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><b><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif"></span><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif">✓ </span></b></span>MacOS (OSX) 13.0 (<i>mix of open source and proprietary, proprietary result</i>) (Oct 2022)<br> ("Ventura" ; mostly FreeBSD userland <a class="gmail_plusreply" id="m_2495080796716041526plusReplyChip-3">+</a> Darwin 22.1.0 kernel, + some OpenBSD network bits) <br></li></ul></ul></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div></div><div>2. "Whatever happened to the <n> operating system", where <n> is one of </div><div>        { BSD, Solaris, HP-UX, AIX, Darwin, HURD, AT&T Plan9, SGI Unix, ... }</div></div></blockquote><div> </div><div><div class="gmail_default"><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Unix_systems#/media/File:Unix_history-simple.svg" target="_blank"><span style="font-family:arial narrow,sans-serif">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Unix_systems#/media/File:Unix_history-simple.svg</span></a></div><div style="font-family:georgia,serif" class="gmail_default">shows quite a few as live (listed above) and<br>a number of lines of descent as having <b>ended: <br><strike>Minix</strike>, </b>(<i>academic kernelized IX-ish OS that inspired non-kernelized Linux</i>)<b><br><strike>OpenServer</strike> (</b><i><strike>Xenix</strike> lineage</i><b>), <br><strike>UnixWare</strike> (</b>aka<b> <strike>Unix sVr5</strike>)</b>;</div><div style="font-family:georgia,serif" class="gmail_default"><b><strike>OSF/1</strike> (</b>incl<b> DEC/HP <strike>Tru64</strike>) </b><br></div><div style="font-family:georgia,serif" class="gmail_default"><b>SGI'</b>s was <b><strike>IRIX</strike>,</b> <br></div><div style="font-family:georgia,serif" class="gmail_default"><b>Cray <strike>UNICOS</strike></b> (orig. "CX-OS",  UNIX, later Linux; disc.)</div><div style="font-family:georgia,serif" class="gmail_default"><br></div><div style="font-family:georgia,serif" class="gmail_default"><br></div><div style="font-family:georgia,serif" class="gmail_default">Others - <br></div><ul><li><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><b><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif">MACH kernel: </span></b><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif">CMU developed.</span><b><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif"></span></b></span></li><ul><li><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><strike><b><span class="gmail_default">OSF Mach - </span></b></strike><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif"><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif"><b><strike><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">OSF/1</span></strike> </b>Unix ported to Mach. </span></span></span><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif"><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif">Last seen as HP Tru64, 2012.</span></span></span><b><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif"><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><b><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif"><br></span></b></span></span></b></span></li><li><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><b><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif"><strike><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">NeXTSTEP</span></strike>  </span></b><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif">(BSD+Mach) - long gone.</span><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif"> Even <strike>OpenStep OS</strike>  on Mach gone. (GnuStep continues the API etc, but not as OS).</span><b><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif"><br></span></b></span></li><li><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><b><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif"><strike><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">OS/2 Warp PPC</span> (Mach) "Workplace OS"</strike> </span></b><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif">- never shipped</span><b><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif"><br></span></b></span></li><li><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><b><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif"></span><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif">✓ </span>Darwin</b><span class="gmail_default"><b></b> (Mach XNU, <u>non-free</u>) (kernel)</span>: <span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif">Lives. </span>See <b>MacOS</b><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif"><b></b> under live.</span></span></li><li><b><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif">GNU </span>Hurd<span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif"> & GNU <span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Mach</span></span></span><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif"><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"></span> <span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif"> (</span></span></b><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif"><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif">Mach</span></span><b><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif"><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif"> </span></span></b><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif"><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif">microkernel+ Gnu Hurd services</span></span><b><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif"><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif">)</span></span></b>: <br><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif">Schrödinger's Cat or Monty Python Parrot status!<br><i>Unclear if there is Hurd development; Hurd is not promoted by FSF/GNU currently.<br>There is supposedly a Gnu Hurd NG project in design to try again at GNU soup-to-nuts again.</i><br></span><span style="font-family:georgia,serif">4 of 6<span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif"> </span><span class="gmail_default">official distributions</span> <span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif">officially </span>discontinued<span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif">, including one of the showcases,<br><strike>Gentoo Hurd</strike></span>; <br><strike>Arch Hurd</strike><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif"><strike></strike> </span> (not <span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif">officially </span>discontinued but <span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif">is ^<i></i></span><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif"><i>rolling^</i> release last updated 2019, so <i>de facto</i> </span><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif">ceased without even a wimper</span><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif"> - <br><i>but that was 8 years after it was pronounced deceased the first time, so paritial points for trying</i></span><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif">?</span>) <span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif">;</span><br>so <span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif">seems </span><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif"></span>only<br> <b><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif"><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><b><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif"></span><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif">✓ </span></b></span></span>Debian GNU/Hurd</b> ( Aug 2021<span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif"> release; dev build in Dec 2022</span>) continues<span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif"></span><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif"> - <i>may be one guy tho</i>?</span> <br><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif">(<i>but is not among the Gnu/Linux variants purist enough for FSF/GNU endorsement, presumably due to "optionally free" components included?</i>)</span><br><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif"></span><br></span></li></ul><li><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif"><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><b><strike>Plan 9</strike>:</b></span> AT&T/Bell's final  P9 2015 Fourth Edition release was <i>post facto </i> open sourced.</span></li><ul><li><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif"><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif"><b><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><b><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif"><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif"><b><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">½ </span></b></span></span></b></span></b></span><b>Plan9Legacy</b> is a patched edition of Fourth's legacy FLOSS code, so <i>somewhat</i> live (on life support? zombie?).<br></span></li><li><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif"><b><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><b><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif"></span><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif"><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif"><b><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">½</span></b></span> </span></b></span>Plan 9 from User Space</b> (aka plan9port, p9p, 9fans) is the good parts of Plan 9 userspace ported to traditional *n*x, so somewhat live (12 threads on mailing list in 11 months, as many as 5 replies!),<br><i> nearly fossilized; and abandons the kernel/filesystem/IO breakthroughs, <br>so no longer an OS.</i></span></li><li><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif"><b><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">½</span></b> 9P protocol (9P2000) reportedly available on Linux (as a better NFS)? <br><i>But that's a plugin not an OS</i><br></span></li></ul></ul></div><div style="font-family:georgia,serif" class="gmail_default">Other POSIX userspace projects (for Windows)<br></div><div style="font-family:georgia,serif" class="gmail_default"><ul><li>GNU Cygwin (<i>still live</i>?)<br></li><li><strike>MKS Toolkit</strike></li><li>WSL (MS's 3d try?)</li><li>??<br></li></ul></div><br></div><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div></div><div>Any thoughts on where we might find either a speaker to give an general overview, or perhaps separate speakers for each OS?<br></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div style="font-family:georgia,serif" class="gmail_default">My AIX guys at IBM have moved on in the last decade, i don't have any current AIX contacts.<br></div><div style="font-family:georgia,serif" class="gmail_default">Similarly my HP-UX, Oracle Solaris (it hurts to type that) contacts will have been up or out in 9 years.<br></div><div style="font-family:georgia,serif" class="gmail_default"><br></div></div><br></div>
</blockquote></div><br clear="all"><br>-- <br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr">John Abreau / Executive Director, Boston Linux & Unix<br>Email <a href="mailto:jabr@blu.org" target="_blank">jabr@blu.org</a> / WWW <a href="http://www.abreau.net" target="_blank">http://www.abreau.net</a> / PGP-Key-ID 0x920063C6<br>PGP-Key-Fingerprint A5AD 6BE1 FEFE 8E4F 5C23  C2D0 E885 E17C 9200 63C6<br><br></div></div>