Re: Rant: graphical terminal based vim vs IDE

["markw-4" <user=5@nabble.blu.org>]

 > On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 2:02 PM,  <[hidden email]> wrote: 
>> I don't need eclipse or some other IDE 
>> creating a second "desktop metaphor" within my desktop metaphor. 
> 8>< 
>> There is no real reason why we need an application like an IDE that 
>> provides basically the same functionality of the desktop only less 
>> flexibly and in a way thats different than the desktop of our choosing. 
> 
> IDEs were designed to provide syntactic assistance with code editing, 

You mean like ctags? 

> but more importantly to provide semantic and work-flow features that 
> save huge amounts of time when developing software. 

Like makefiles and "make?" 

>  Large software 
> projects, especially those involving teams of developers, benefit 
> enormously from using an IDE. 

I'm not sure you substantiated that statement. 

>  I'm not sure how anyone doing software 
> engineering could get work done efficiently without things like code 
> complete and generation, syntax high-lighting and auto-formatting, 
> library resolution and token checking, refactoring tools, and build 
> and unit-testing management. 

To be honest, I have seriously wasted so much time with products like 
VisualStudio and eclipse that my mind boggles that *anyone* gets anything 
done with these tools. 

Take VisualStudio, 2003 will not use a project created with 2005. 2005 
will not use a project file produced with 2003 without converting it, 
which then makes it unusable by 2003. What a stupid waste of time. The 
only way to use this tool is to ensure that everyone is using the same 
version of the development tools. This means that code shared across 
different projects forces all the projects to use the same development 
tools, and that isn't appropriate all the time especially if you are doing 
kernel drivers. 

I have single Makefiles that work on a multitude of platforms and versions. 

svn co filepath 
cd filepath 
./configure 
make 
make install 

> Of course there are also lots of plugins 
> available for integrating with version control systems, bug and issue 
> tracking systems, continuous integration tools, etc. 

Or, gasp, individual tools. 

> vi(m) is great, 
> and it even does some of the above, but IMHO it's not the right tool 
> for serious development. 

Define, please, what you think "serious development" consists of? I have 
been developing software since the 70s and am a "serious" developer and I 
use vim. 

> If you are so accustomed to vi(m)- or 
> emacs-style editing, there are plugins for Eclipse (and I imagine 
> other IDEs) that will allow you to continue editing in your preferred 
> fashion. 

My biggest issue is the mouse. For the most part it is a distraction. 
Using vim, my hands don't need to leave the keyboard, my visual attention 
is not distracted by navigation. ":e #" switch the other document. ":e 
filename" switch to a new file. ":w" save. ":x" save and exit. "dd" delete 
a line. "p"   paste a line. And more. 

The "IDE" mentality, at least to me, hampers real productivity because it 
distracts a developer by splitting his or her concentration. When you have 
habitual control over keyboard actions it is less distracting than having 
to break a train of thought to move a the mouse. 



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