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[Discuss] Port Scanning
- Subject: [Discuss] Port Scanning
- From: kentborg at borg.org (Kent Borg)
- Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2024 10:36:27 -0700
- In-reply-to: <20240806170304.2bhs5pxr2v4nytj7@randomstring.org>
- References: <20240801182824.4bf21319.Richard.Pieri@gmail.com> <f6d905fd-7886-4cf2-9b02-f6d89f60adf0@borg.org> <20240801214606.5bebc46a.Richard.Pieri@gmail.com> <20c3240d-184f-4c84-b4ed-7680ac5301bd@borg.org> <CAJFsZ=o7btMacs-OqTB0908ehYkZCFGtupLkNi59C9K8XV6zKQ@mail.gmail.com> <20240804112131.195b6e56.Richard.Pieri@gmail.com> <CAJFsZ=roiGszBrbv6CzFY57V=fBe9CnZKqBi-eSUQ8eTHPr8_A@mail.gmail.com> <0b343b65-a7f6-4800-9925-aa9d08a62f82@syntheticblue.com> <20240806154705.ubfekthzywobbfn5@randomstring.org> <83a6b5f4-f82c-40e9-98ad-79681e04d9f2@syntheticblue.com> <20240806170304.2bhs5pxr2v4nytj7@randomstring.org>
On 8/6/24 10:03, Dan Ritter wrote: > The rise of virtual machines and containers is an admission of > systemic failure: people gave up on managing dependencies in a > sensible manner. I've always considered the reason to be that the traditional idea of what services an OS should offer has become tattered. But your version gets to the heart of that in a nice way. And there is more going on (going wrong) here. The OS clearly isn't doing enough to manage dependencies if people prefer what BIOS?offers (or I guess UEFI these days) to what the OS offers. A mark of failure for the OS. But we should still be impressed, the "operating system" had a good decades-long run. Back when Unix first showed up there were a very few OS-supplied libraries that userland programs could link against, but there was not much code reuse beyond that. I remember a Byte Magazine cover with a painting of a stylized IC that was supposed to represent software components (vs. hardware components), with a question: We have reusable hardware components, why we don't have reusable software components? Whenever that was (early '80s?) the OS wasn't addressing the problem of managing software dependencies because there mostly *were* no software dependencies, so much so that Byte was asking "Why not?". At sometime in there programs with a GUI showed up. Programming X Windows, or an original Macintosh, was more complicated than a command line but it was still rational, something that was consciously designed. A non-trivial program easily fit on a floppy disk, and it ran on a machine without a gigantic OS inside. The block diagram showing how it worked could have reasonable detail and still fit on one sheet of paper. The X program even worked over a network, and was likely multi-user! Fast forward to now, drop yourself into a typical commercial software organization, convince management they need a modern analog to that earlier program, they assign a team, and sometime later, there it is. Now draw me a block diagram of how *it* works, to the same level of detail as that old one. Don't cheat, include how the various commercial services that are part of it are also implemented. It is *not* going to fit on one piece of paper. (But who uses paper anymore? We have Figma.) That extra detail? Some is because a key hunk of the system wasn't designed for purpose. We took a system designed to serve static hypertext...and we extended it to unrecognizable dimensions. Other of the extra detail is trying to deal with the fact that no one designed a coherent way to handle dependency management. I assert that pretty much all of that extra detail is, in effect, the "OS". An OS no one designed: billions of lines of code needing enormous amounts of hardware on which to run. There must be a good number of people on this list who remember Rube Goldberg machines. It is as if our industry took those cartoons to be a model to copy and not a satirical caution. At this point some of those reading this are upset with me, because the modern way of doing things does much more stuff. Certainly it does! My point is that just it was never designed, it is a godawful mess. It is because of the failure (or lack) of "OS" that our world got cobbled together this way. -kb
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- From: richard.pieri at gmail.com (Rich Pieri)
- [Discuss] Port Scanning
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- [Discuss] Port Scanning
- From: richard.pieri at gmail.com (Rich Pieri)
- [Discuss] Port Scanning
- From: kentborg at borg.org (Kent Borg)
- [Discuss] Port Scanning
- From: richard.pieri at gmail.com (Rich Pieri)
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- From: kentborg at borg.org (Kent Borg)
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- [Discuss] Port Scanning
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- [Discuss] Port Scanning
- From: dsr at randomstring.org (Dan Ritter)
- [Discuss] Port Scanning
- From: daniel at syntheticblue.com (Daniel M Gessel)
- [Discuss] Port Scanning
- From: dsr at randomstring.org (Dan Ritter)
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