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Plea for help: The detriment of using Microsoft products

This is my last response on the list:  GO TO THE WEB SITE!  YOU DO NOT

A lot more than 2 (6 in India alone), and a lot more countries.
Took me 2 minutes to get there.  


On Thu, 18 May 2000, Mike Bilow wrote:

> Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 16:38:29 -0400 (EDT)
> From: Mike Bilow <mikebw at>
> To: Jeffry Smith <smith at>
> Cc: Oommen Thomas <oommen at>,
     Kevin D. Clark <kclark at>, GNHLUG <gnhlug at>,
     BLU Users' Group <discuss at Blu.Org>
> Subject: Re: Plea for help: The detriment of using Microsoft products 
> What I am saying, and I think this discussion has exceeded the bounds of
> general interest to list subscribers, is that there is a difference
> between self-assessing CMM level and being evaluated by a third party.  
> Anyone can do a self-assessment and be listed on the SEI web site, and
> their listings are entirely on the honor system.
> However, an independent evaluation by a certified third party evaluator,
> needed to satisfy US defense contracting requirements, is not going to be
> a worthwhile expenditure for any organization barred from US defense
> work.  As the SEI site shows, there are actually only two non-US certified
> independent evaluators, and they both work for the UK Ministry of Defence.
> So the situation is that there may be numerous organizations which claim
> to be operating at CMM4 or CMM5, and they are listed on the SEI web site
> as users of the SEI standard.  But there is no possibility that anyone in
> India, for example, is going to be given a contract for a US defense
> critical system requiring CMM evaluation.  This has absolutely nothing to
> do with the actual quality or competence of the organizations in India,
> but is a straightforward national security policy.
> The end result is that organizations in India do self-assessments and
> claim CMM conformance to SEI, which lists them on the web site.  These
> claims could be true, or they could be false: it is entirely based upon
> the unaudited credibility of the organization itself.  SEI views its
> mission as the promotion of CMM as a well-defined standard, and they do
> not get involved in contract requirements or any other private issues.  
> SEI certification is limited to individuals who perform organizational
> assessments and evaluations, but there is no endorsement by SEI of any
> particular organizational assessment or evaluation.
> There may well be many organizations which choose to use CMM methodology
> for non-defense work.  Some of them may even be in India.  However, it
> must be understood that all we really know about such organizations which
> are not independently evaluated in connection with defense work is that
> they are claiming CMM conformance only on the basis of self-assessment.
> -- Mike
> On 2000-05-18 at 14:30 -0400, Jeffry Smith wrote:
> > Again, I direct you to look at the site (!  CMM
> > Started with the DoD, but is actually used by many others.  You made
> > an assumption that because DoD started it, they're the only ones to
> > use it.  I'll point out that a lot of our industry started 
> > for the DoD (including COBOL and computers in general).  And, I'll
> > point out that the purpose of CMM5 is to generate bug-free code, quickly
> > and efficiently.  DoD has a strong interest because of critical
> > systems.  Are you saying that no one else wants bug-free code,
> > generated in an efficient manner?

Jeffry Smith      Technical Sales Consultant     Mission Critical Linux
smith at phone:978.446.9166,x271 fax:978.446.9470
Thought for today:  Economics is extremely useful as a form of employment for economists.
		-- John Kenneth Galbraith

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