Ubuntu moving away from X

[markw-FJ05HQ0HCKaWd6l5hS35sQ at public.gmane.org (Mark Woodward)]

On 11/06/2010 08:07 AM, discuss-request-mNDKBlG2WHs at public.gmane.org wrote:
> From: Richard Pieri<richard.pieri-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org>
> Subject: Re: Ubuntu moving away from X
> To: L-blu List<discuss-mNDKBlG2WHs at public.gmane.org>
> Message-ID:<45139A60-5AED-4931-BFA4-7B0181F4E77C-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> On Nov 5, 2010, at 1:02 PM,markw-FJ05HQ0HCKaWd6l5hS35sQ at public.gmane.org  wrote:
>    
>> >  
>> >  In the end, the user suffers. Have you used "X" programs on macintosh? Its
>> >  terrible. That's what Shuttleworth is going to bring to ubuntu.
>>      
> This is not because XQuartz is terrible.  This is because the X applications are terrible.  I say that as a daily user of exactly this combination.  It's how I get my Xterms and my occasional Guild Wars fix, among many other things including remote X clients.
>    
"X Applications are terrible?" Really? OpenOffice, Firefox, Gimp, 
Thunderbird, etc. are terrible applications? I have to disagree.

Yes, there are some basic "non cool" applications built on the X system, 
but they can and do provide good functionality even if the eye candy 
factor is 0.

An X compatibility layer doesn't work. It seems to work well enough for 
local applications, but Mac's X compatibility stinks for remote apps. A 
feature that I use all the time.

A compatibility layer creates two tiers of applications and we all know 
that ends up happening. The "compatibility layer" programs slowly fall 
into disuse and either re-write or fad away. Either way, it means that 
X's capabilities die.
>    
>> >  X works. X can do everything that Shuttleworth wants to do. X has features
>> >  that Mac and Windows can't even touch.
>>      
> I call FUD.  X cannot do everything that Shuttleworth wants to do.  Ever try to install X11 on a bleeding-edge video card?  Pain. In. The. Ass.  Going straight to the standard OpenGL APIs for the display is a huge, huge win.
>    
I call FUD twice. "Ever try to install X11 on a bleeding-edge video 
card" Ever try installing ANYTHING on a cutting edge video card? Even 
Windows has issues with crappy "new" drivers if they exist for your 
older or newest version of Windows. X.org has a huge driver base and a 
well known API set. Any XYZ technology has the exact same issue on a new 
video card.

I know this first hand. I wrote video drivers for Windows and XFree 
about 15 years ago. When Windows NT 4.0 came out they changed the driver 
model from a user space rendering and kernel space miniport, to a kernel 
space rendering system.

> XQuartz can do everything that X.Org on Linux can do -- or more accurately everything that X.Org on FreeBSD can do.  With XQuartz you get everything that X11 offers*and*  everything that Mac offers.  I see X11 on Wayland as a huge win for everyone.
>    
Until, the two tier application effect happens. Then you will get 
applications that CAN'T do what applications can do today for free.
> --Rich P.
>